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Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

This is the first blog post in a series I'll write over the coming months called Pushing the Limits of Windows that describes how Windows and applications use a particular resource, the licensing and implementation-derived limits of the resource, how to measure the resource’s usage, and how to diagnose leaks. To be able to manage your Windows systems effectively you need to understand how Windows manages physical resources, such as CPUs and memory, as well as logical resources, such as virtual memory, handles, and window manager objects. Knowing the limits of those resources and how to track their usage enables you to attribute resource usage to the applications that consume them, effectively size a system for a particular workload, and identify applications that leak resources.

Physical Memory

One of the most fundamental resources on a computer is physical memory. Windows' memory manager is responsible with populating memory with the code and data of active processes, device drivers, and the operating system itself. Because most systems access more code and data than can fit in physical memory as they run, physical memory is in essence a window into the code and data used over time. The amount of memory can therefore affect performance, because when data or code a process or the operating system needs is not present, the memory manager must bring it in from disk.

Besides affecting performance, the amount of physical memory impacts other resource limits. For example, the amount of non-paged pool, operating system buffers backed by physical memory, is obviously constrained by physical memory. Physical memory also contributes to the system virtual memory limit, which is the sum of roughly the size of physical memory plus the maximum configured size of any paging files. Physical memory also can indirectly limit the maximum number of processes, which I'll talk about in a future post on process and thread limits.

Windows Server Memory Limits

Windows support for physical memory is dictated by hardware limitations, licensing, operating system data structures, and driver compatibility. The Memory Limits for Windows Releases page in MSDN documents the limits for different Windows versions, and within a version, by SKU.

You can see physical memory support licensing differentiation across the server SKUs for all versions of Windows. For example, the 32-bit version of Windows Server 2008 Standard supports only 4GB, while the 32-bit Windows Server 2008 Datacenter supports 64GB. Likewise, the 64-bit Windows Server 2008 Standard supports 32GB and the 64-bit Windows Server 2008 Datacenter can handle a whopping 2TB. There aren't many 2TB systems out there, but the Windows Server Performance Team knows of a couple, including one they had in their lab at one point. Here's a screenshot of Task Manager running on that system:

image

The maximum 32-bit limit of 128GB, supported by Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition, comes from the fact that structures the Memory Manager uses to track physical memory would consume too much of the system's virtual address space on larger systems. The Memory Manager keeps track of each page of memory in an array called the PFN database and, for performance, it maps the entire PFN database into virtual memory. Because it represents each page of memory with a 28-byte data structure, the PFN database on a 128GB system requires about 930MB. 32-bit Windows has a 4GB virtual address space defined by hardware that it splits by default between the currently executing user-mode process (e.g. Notepad) and the system. 980MB therefore consumes almost half the available 2GB of system virtual address space, leaving only 1GB for mapping the kernel, device drivers, system cache and other system data structures, making that a reasonable cut off:

image

That's also why the memory limits table lists lower limits for the same SKU's when booted with 4GB tuning (called 4GT and enabled with the Boot.ini's /3GB or /USERVA, and Bcdedit's /Set IncreaseUserVa boot options), because 4GT moves the split to give 3GB to user mode and leave only 1GB for the system. For improved performance, Windows Server 2008 reserves more for system address space by lowering its maximum 32-bit physical memory support to 64GB.

The Memory Manager could accommodate more memory by mapping pieces of the PFN database into the system address as needed, but that would add complexity and possibly reduce performance with the added overhead of map and unmap operations. It's only recently that systems have become large enough for that to be considered, but because the system address space is not a constraint for mapping the entire PFN database on 64-bit Windows, support for more memory is left to 64-bit Windows.

The maximum 2TB limit of 64-bit Windows Server 2008 Datacenter doesn't come from any implementation or hardware limitation, but Microsoft will only support configurations they can test. As of the release of Windows Server 2008, the largest system available anywhere was 2TB and so Windows caps its use of physical memory there.

Windows Client Memory Limits

64-bit Windows client SKUs support different amounts of memory as a SKU-differentiating feature, with the low end being 512MB for Windows XP Starter to 128GB for Vista Ultimate. All 32-bit Windows client SKUs, however, including Windows Vista, Windows XP and Windows 2000 Professional, support a maximum of 4GB of physical memory. 4GB is the highest physical address accessible with the standard x86 memory management mode. Originally, there was no need to even consider support for more than 4GB on clients because that amount of memory was rare, even on servers.

However, by the time Windows XP SP2 was under development, client systems with more than 4GB were foreseeable, so the Windows team started broadly testing Windows XP on systems with more than 4GB of memory. Windows XP SP2 also enabled Physical Address Extensions (PAE) support by default on hardware that implements no-execute memory because its required for Data Execution Prevention (DEP), but that also enables support for more than 4GB of memory.

What they found was that many of the systems would crash, hang, or become unbootable because some device drivers, commonly those for video and audio devices that are found typically on clients but not servers, were not programmed to expect physical addresses larger than 4GB. As a result, the drivers truncated such addresses, resulting in memory corruptions and corruption side effects. Server systems commonly have more generic devices and with simpler and more stable drivers, and therefore hadn't generally surfaced these problems. The problematic client driver ecosystem lead to the decision for client SKUs to ignore physical memory that resides above 4GB, even though they can theoretically address it.

32-bit Client Effective Memory Limits 

While 4GB is the licensed limit for 32-bit client SKUs, the effective limit is actually lower and dependent on the system's chipset and connected devices. The reason is that the physical address map includes not only RAM, but device memory as well, and x86 and x64 systems map all device memory below the 4GB address boundary to remain compatible with 32-bit operating systems that don't know how to handle addresses larger than 4GB. If a system has 4GB RAM and devices, like video, audio and network adapters, that implement windows into their device memory that sum to 500MB, 500MB of the 4GB of RAM will reside above the 4GB address boundary, as seen below:

image

The result is that, if you have a system with 3GB or more of memory and you are running a 32-bit Windows client, you may not be getting the benefit of all of the RAM.  On Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows Vista RTM, you can see how much RAM Windows has accessible to it in the System Properties dialog, Task Manager's Performance page, and, on Windows XP and Windows Vista (including SP1), in the Msinfo32 and Winver utilities. On Window Vista SP1, some of these locations changed to show installed RAM, rather than available RAM, as documented in this Knowledge Base article.

On my 4GB laptop, when booted with 32-bit Vista, the amount of physical memory available is 3.5GB, as seen in the Msinfo32 utility:

image

You can see physical memory layout with the Meminfo tool by Alex Ionescu (who's contributing to the 5th Edition of the Windows Internals that I'm coauthoring with David Solomon). Here's the output of Meminfo when I run it on that system with the -r switch to dump physical memory ranges:

image

Note the gap in the memory address range from page 9F0000 to page 100000, and another gap from DFE6D000 to FFFFFFFF (4GB). However, when I boot that system with 64-bit Vista, all 4GB show up as available and you can see how Windows uses the remaining 500MB of RAM that are above the 4GB boundary:

image 

What's occupying the holes below 4GB? The Device Manager can answer that question. To check, launch "devmgmt.msc", select Resources by Connection in the View Menu, and expand the Memory node. On my laptop, the primary consumer of mapped device memory is, unsurprisingly, the video card, which consumes 256MB in the range E0000000-EFFFFFFF:

image

Other miscellaneous devices account for most of the rest, and the PCI bus reserves additional ranges for devices as part of the conservative estimation the firmware uses during boot.

The consumption of memory addresses below 4GB can be drastic on high-end gaming systems with large video cards. For example, I purchased one from a boutique gaming rig company that came with 4GB of RAM and two 1GB video cards. I hadn't specified the OS version and assumed that they'd put 64-bit Vista on it, but it came with the 32-bit version and as a result only 2.2GB of the memory was accessible by Windows. You can see a giant memory hole from 8FEF0000 to FFFFFFFF in this Meminfo output from the system after I installed 64-bit Windows:

image

Device Manager reveals that 512MB of the over 2GB hole is for the video cards (256MB each), and it looks like the firmware has reserved more for either dynamic mappings or because it was conservative in its estimate:

image

Even systems with as little as 2GB can be prevented from having all their memory usable under 32-bit Windows because of chipsets that aggressively reserve memory regions for devices. Our shared family computer, which we purchased only a few months ago from a major OEM, reports that only 1.97GB of the 2GB installed is available:

image

The physical address range from 7E700000 to FFFFFFFF is reserved by the PCI bus and devices, which leaves a theoretical maximum of 7E700000 bytes (1.976GB) of physical address space, but even some of that is reserved for device memory, which explains why Windows reports 1.97GB.

image

Because device vendors now have to submit both 32-bit and 64-bit drivers to Microsoft's Windows Hardware Quality Laboratories (WHQL) to obtain a driver signing certificate, the majority of device drivers today can probably handle physical addresses above the 4GB line. However, 32-bit Windows will continue to ignore memory above it because there is still some difficult to measure risk, and OEMs are (or at least should be) moving to 64-bit Windows where it's not an issue.

The bottom line is that you can fully utilize your system's memory (up the SKU's limit) with 64-bit Windows, regardless of the amount, and if you are purchasing a high end gaming system you should definitely ask the OEM to put 64-bit Windows on it at the factory.

Do You Have Enough Memory?

Regardless of how much memory your system has, the question is, is it enough? Unfortunately, there's no hard and fast rule that allows you to know with certainty. There is a general guideline you can use that's based on monitoring the system's "available" memory over time, especially when you're running memory-intensive workloads. Windows defines available memory as physical memory that's not assigned to a process, the kernel, or device drivers. As its name implies, available memory is available for assignment to a process or the system if required. The Memory Manager of course tries to make the most of that memory by using it as a file cache (the standby list), as well as for zeroed memory (the zero page list), and Vista's Superfetch feature prefetches data and code into the standby list and prioritizes it to favor data and code likely to be used in the near future.

If available memory becomes scarce, that means that processes or the system are actively using physical memory, and if it remains close to zero over extended periods of time, you can probably benefit by adding more memory. There are a number of ways to track available memory. On Windows Vista, you can indirectly track available memory by watching the Physical Memory Usage History in Task Manager, looking for it to remain close to 100% over time. Here's a screenshot of Task Manager on my 8GB desktop system (hmm, I think I might have too much memory!):

image

On all versions of Windows you can graph available memory using the Performance Monitor by adding the Available Bytes counter in the Memory performance counter group:

image 

You can see the instantaneous value in Process Explorer's System Information dialog, or, on versions of Windows prior to Vista, on Task Manager's Performance page.

Pushing the Limits

Out of CPU, memory and disk, memory is typically the most important for overall system performance. The more, the better. 64-bit Windows is the way to go to be sure that you're taking advantage of all of it, and 64-bit Windows can have other performance benefits that I'll talk about in a future Pushing the Limits blog post when I talk about virtual memory limits.

Published Monday, July 21, 2008 7:28 PM by markrussinovich

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# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

It seems to me that you omitted something. To wit, the contribution of SP2 when dealing with Windows XP. I built a system with 4 GB of RAM roughly three years ago because I wanted the extra RAM for pro audio/video applications. By your article, my system should have had about 3.75 GB of free RAM under the 32-bit version  of Windows XP (in light of my video card's 256 MB).

But that's only true with SP1. From what I've been able to gather, when Microsoft added the DEP feature to SP2, they made what strikes me as a stupid decision: to lop off the top gigabyte of memory altogether, rather than deal with driver issues that could be caused by interactions with DEP. When I boot into WinXP SP1 on that machine, I do have 3.75 GB of RAM available; when I boot WinXP SP2 on the very same hardware, using the very same drivers, I have 2.75 GB available.

I have received conflicting answers to my support inquiries over the years from Microsoft personnel. Can you perhaps comment on the top gigabyte of RAM when using WinXP SP2 or later?

Monday, July 21, 2008 4:18 PM by Phileosophos

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

The behavior I describe in the post is the same for all releases of Windows client systems, including Windows XP, so if there's a difference in behavior between SP1 and SP2, it has to do with a video driver or some other factor. You can confirm that by using the Meminfo tool to look at physical memory ranges and the device manager to see what's using the the missing ranges.

Monday, July 21, 2008 4:37 PM by markrussinovich

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Great article, thanks!  It's always fun to see Task Manager screenshots from monster systems. :)  One thing I wondered while reading this article: are computer companies afraid to put 64-bit Windows on machines, or do they just not know any better?  At my company we bought several Dell PCs with 4GB last year.  They came with 32-bit Vista, which reports only 3.1GB as being available.  (With Vista SP1 it now reports 4GB in some places, as you mentioned...)

By the way, I noticed one typo:

"two 1MB video cards" (should be 1GB)

Monday, July 21, 2008 4:53 PM by Tom

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Thanks for the feedback and for pointing out the typo.

Monday, July 21, 2008 5:02 PM by markrussinovich

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Excellent article Mark.  I understood the x86 vs x64 memory issues before, but this explains much more in detail, and shows us how to actually discover exactly how much memory we are loosing on the x86 platform.

Thanks!

Monday, July 21, 2008 8:10 PM by Beric Holt

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

As always great article. Looking forward to more.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:05 AM by Chris D

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

First, thanks for the response. But second, what I find just doesn't match what you say.

For the record, I can't use the meminfo utility you suggest because it requires Vista or later. I quote from the bottom of the linked page: "Please note that MemInfo requires Windows Vista or higher as well as full (elevated) administrative privileges."

Sadly, device manager is no more illuminating, insofar as the memory shown in use is identical across both OS installs and yet SP1 install 3.5 GB of memory while SP2 reports 2.5 GB of memory--I've since upgraded to video that use 512 MB instead of the 256 MB I mentioned originally.

What I find most interesting is that in order to make the most of my 4 GB of physical RAM, I must (1) run WinXP SP1, and (2) use the /PAE switch in my BOOT.INI file. Only by using the /PAE switch does WinXP SP1 report the extra RAM and make it available. That just doesn't track with your statement that the behavior "...is the same for all releases of Windows client systems, including Windows XP, so if there's a difference in behavior between SP1 and SP2, it has to do with a video driver or some other factor."

I would *LOVE* to pursue this further somehow. You're the brightest and most thorough developer I've had the privilege of chatting with, and this is an issue on which I would relish closure.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:25 AM by Phileosophos

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Total Physical Memory 4,096.00 MB

Available Physical Memory 2.09 GB

4 GB RAM only 2.09 GB addressed :(

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:13 AM by Sarath

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Hi.

I believe that Computer shops are holding back 64 bit OS'es because customer support. Home users have many more or less different gadgets that dont have 64 bit drives. Also - there is still lots of old 16-bit software what they need to run for some reason (mostly sentimental reasons).

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:23 AM by Corwin

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Good article, but I'd like to add one thing: you may have to manually enable memory remapping in the BIOS to access all of 4+ GB RAM in a 64-bit system. Otherwise, part of it may be obscured by memory-mapped devices at the same location.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:36 AM by Chris Nahr

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Thanks! It would be interesting to hear your thought on the windows swapfile too (most likely you've already talked about this somewhere and I've missed it). I've heard a lot of different theories on how to handle the seap on system with large amounts of RAM. Some claim it's better to have no swapfile, while others claim it's better to let Windows handle it.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:20 AM by Thessan

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Excellent article as always!  Very informative.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:41 AM by Craig

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

@Phileosophos: "From what I've been able to gather, when Microsoft added the DEP feature to SP2.."

FYI: From what I can remember, when DEP is enabled, /PAE (physical address extension) is also (implicitely) enabled, which may affect available RAM. (depends on system)

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 7:42 AM by TechGuy

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Mark,

Excellent article!

One question, in the system that you show where 7E700000 to FFFFFFFF is reserved for PCI, who's responsible for this reservation? OS? Bios? who?

Thanks!

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:56 AM by Jose Olcese

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Hi Mark

Correct me if I am wrong:

Devices call Windows and say "Oi, Windows! If anyone passed you a pointer to the 4096th MB of the physical memory, that someone is actually addressing our device memory! We just didn't think you have that much memory, now do you?" And Windows goes back and says: "OK. No problem. And no! I don't think any computer with more than 512MB RAM ever exist!"

Does that sound about right?

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:21 AM by Fleet Command

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

In another forum someone commented that the first image in this page represents the minimum hardware requirements for the next version of Windows. That made me LOL.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 11:11 AM by Warp

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Phileosophos: TechGuy is correct - XP SP2 enables PAE by default because it's required for DEP. Prior to XP SP2, if you specified the /PAE switch manually, Windows didn't truncate addresses above 4GB. During XP SP2 testing the driver problems were discovered and so the change was made then. I've updated the post to mention this.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:03 PM by markrussinovich

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

That 2tb 64 processor system looks a bit underutilized.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:27 PM by David

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Great post as always, I'm really enjoying this kind of technical writings.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 12:58 PM by raino

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Great post Mark. It really gives a background to things I half-knew before, heh. I've been running 64-bit Vista since the day it was made available to beta testers and it was certainly worth it.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:57 PM by jrronimo

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

*g* Vista x64 can address 4 times more RAM than "Server" Standard x64

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:16 PM by John

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Great post.. And why you are showing Task Manager screenshots instead of Process Explorer!! :)

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:16 PM by mvadu

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Great article! One question though:

Is the 'taken' memory actually used (do the actual I/O calls go through actual memory cells) or the address space is the only thing needed? In other words, would the system behave the same if there was no actual memory (or maybe just a dummy memory chip with no cells)?

Now that I think about it, this wouldn't be possible with graphic cards' allocations, but what about other devices?

GL

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:47 PM by GrofLuigi

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

I can't get over the initial screenshot.  On the 2TB system 95GB of memory is already in use.  They must be running some hefty apps.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:57 PM by TaylorMichaelL

# Video card menory

Very nice article, so if I have a video card with more on-board memory, say 512MB, will 512MB also be set a side of my main systems memory?  Will your article elaborate on the trade offs regarding video card memory, how its used, and why more may be better or worse in some cases - hard core gaming vs business use only. If I just use my computer for business use,is it better to have less video graphics card memory? - thank you

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:11 PM by Greg Fri

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Meminfo appears to require Vista ...

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:10 PM by Alex

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

You're right, meminfo requires Vista.

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:25 PM by markrussinovich

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

I don't think 8 gigs is by any means too much. Heck that's how much I have in order to ensure that notepad is opening fast enough on my Vista box ;-).

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:50 AM by Stephen Reese

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Hmm, a 2Tb system, with what appeared to be 64 threads. Could that have been a HP Integrity Superdome running IA64 architecture?

As always, Mark, a good read!

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:11 AM by Mark Edwards

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Like thessan, I would love to see an article on the Windows swap file. I have read conflicting opinions on whether it is really required in memory-rich systems, and I would like your expert insight into this.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:42 AM by Steve Boyko

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Is there any reasons to put into 32 bit computer 4GB memory? I think that developers who do it spend users' money.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:45 AM by WEB Developer

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

What about Vista ability to use USB flash storage for page files? Does this affect memory consumption or memory addressability?

Great article

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:15 AM by Vadmyst

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

I'm actually dealing with an interesting, related topic currently.  My customer is looking to deploy Vista to 18,000 desktops currently running Windows 2000 with 1 GB of memory.  They're looking for confirmation that their application portfolio will perform similarly under Vista as it did under w2k.  RAM would be the obvious potential bottleneck.  Would you say that monitoring available memory over time is an adequate measure to analyze?

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 12:00 PM by edwardk

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Thanks for the post. I'm looking forward to read a next bunch of information.

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:27 PM by Security Man

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Mark Edwards: good call, it's a superdome.

Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:54 AM by markrussinovich

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Phileosophos did you read kb888137 as this seems to answer your question re sp1 and sp2 memory

Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:10 AM by stuart robertson

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

This is what I see on the performance tab for my Win32 SP3 system.  My available physical memory always stays around 1GB (out of 2GB).  

I've always been curious about what "System Cache" is.  What does this memory represent and how is it managed?  Why is the number so high here?

Totals

Handles 23245

Threads 879

Processes 83

Commit Charge (K)

Total 1535908

Limit 5009600

Peak 3269464

Physical Memory (K)

Total 2095528

Available 971408

System Cache 890664

Kernel Memory (K)

Total 128680

Paged 98196

Nonpaged 30484

Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:56 AM by Jojo99

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Mark,

Thanks for your analysis. I have a practical question though. As someone has already pointed out a 64-bit Vista Ultimate can address several times more memory than Windows Server 2008 standard 32-bit or 63-bit. My question is about Windows Server 2008 32-bit in two flavors: Standard and Enperprise. The Enterprise version supports up to 64Gb despite being 32-bit. Is it possible to enable support for more than 4Gb of RAM in the Standard version? For example, I don't a feature set of the Enterprise version but I need more RAM supported on a 32-bit system.

Thanks.

Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:34 AM by Vadim

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Mark you are a GOD! Thank You for an excellent read :)

Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:31 AM by Wayne Robinson

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Mark, I just discovered your BLOG and this wonderful and informative post.  Please keep up the great writings - you are now in my blog subscriptions!

PS - Is there anyway that you would post a full sized screen shot of that 64proc / 2TB RAM taskmanager?  i would love to pass that around.

Thursday, July 24, 2008 3:05 PM by DaveC

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

This is the first time I have been here, and would like to know if you can provide me with an address to where I might be able to download a disk compactor for my hard drive.  I am running HP Windows Vista Home Basic with 14 1GB, of which I have 117GB left.  Sometimes I'll have 123GB, then it will drop to 107GB, and then go up to varies degrees of memory.  My email address is:  billyblue3@verizon.net or mybillyblue@yahoo.com.

I WILL appreciate anything you can do to accommodate me.  Thank you and have a nice day.

Respectfully,

William Maynard

Friday, July 25, 2008 2:15 PM by William Maynard

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Hi Mark,

great blog post! I wonder if you're willing to address Large Pages Support in Windows 2003/2008 in one of your following articles. I experimented with Oracle10g and Large Pages (on IBM machine with 32GB of RAM, Windows 2003 SP2, x64) and I don't know how can one confirm that for example Oracle process memory was allocated with large pages or not!? Can we use some perf. monitor  counter or sysinternals tool for that? Even after I configured Oracle and setup Oracle server process to run under user with "Lock Pages In memory" privilege I observed considerable page faults for Oracle process - hence I suspect that process allocated memory with "ordinary" memory pages.

Regards,

Ales

Saturday, July 26, 2008 5:23 PM by Ales

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Excellent article Mark; I wish I'd know of it yesterday!

As a rule of thumb, I use Perfmon and the Memory, Page Reads/sec counter. If that graph doesn't tend to spend most of its time near zero, with the occasional and inevitable spikes being short and typically under 100, I assume the system has enough physical RAM. The higher that counter's average goes (over long periods of time and at normal usage for the system), the more strongly I consider buying more ram or running less programs concurrently.

Your thoughts on this as a rule of thumb?

Sunday, July 27, 2008 2:14 PM by Quux

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

My rule of the thumb, 1GB for XP on subnotebook (more RAM means higher power and shorter battery life), 2GB for every other XP, 4GB for Vista. More than 4GB only on 64bit Vista AND only if you have profiled demanding application you need to use and it needs more RAM.

Yes, there's a reason to have 4GB under 32bit OS, and that is because most graphic cards have 512MB or less, so even after drivers' memory holes you have usually much more than 2GB available, and that's useful for caching (so for casual usage, too), especially under Vista. 4GB is (on current platforms) better than 3GB because of dual channel memory so 2x2GB means better memory performance than 2GB+1GB. This may change on triple-channel Nehalem, maybe 3x1GB will be better.

Monday, July 28, 2008 5:19 AM by Anna N

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

"What about Vista ability to use USB flash storage for page files?"

Actually, that capability has been available since Windows recognized USB.  I used to run my paging to an 8gb USB memory stick on a Windows 2k Terminal Server.  It worked just fine.  One caveat, use a memory stick that was designed to be used for paging.

Monday, July 28, 2008 8:37 AM by Kenact

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Fantastic article, which now leads to some questions...   I have an ASUS P4S8X motherboard running XP Pro SP2, with an ATI Sapphire AGP graphics card with 512MB on it, (64MB aperture on the motherboard) and the system has 3x1GB RAM (all 3 motherboard slots full and at max capacity).   I had been having difficulty with IE prior to going from 2GB to 3GB system RAM, where it would do really strange things to the display window, like flash the borders and scroll bars, and stop repainting at all - you could move the window, but it wouldn't repaint the part of the desktop that you moved it from.   I suspected video drivers, but couldn't be too sure.   I added the extra gigabyte of RAM figuring it sure wouldn't hurt with as many windows as I have open at one time.   Much of the trouble went away, but has now returned.  I thus tried to change the motherboard graphics aperature to 512MB, and that locked up the system such that I couldn't even boot to the POST screen.   I had to reset the CMOS and reconfigure to get it working again at the 64MB setting.  I'm going to have to take a closer look at the video drivers, but I'm real curious about why the graphics aperture change was such a significant piece of grief that I couldn't even get past POST.   I use a 24" LCD with a 1920 x 1280 resolution for my monitor, and I also had a 19" CRT, so my system still thinks I have two active monitors (and thus two instances of the exe for the vid driver).  I have a copy of Vista Ultimate that I'm planning to install on my next system, although that might be awhile before I can afford the new machine (I'm not going to settle for any cpu less than a Q9450 quad-core with 8 GB RAM).  The question is, do I waste any time on researching my XP difficulties, or do I save the time and trouble and just tough it out until I get to Vista Ultimate 64?  I might learn something valuable though, so NOT toughing it out is certainly attractive from that perspective.

Steve

Monday, July 28, 2008 10:55 AM by Steve Munson

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

How does the flash memory with Vista work into this RAM usage?  i.e. readyboost

Monday, July 28, 2008 11:56 AM by Guest

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Where can we get the meminfo -r program for XP?  The one on the linked webpage is for Vista only.

Monday, July 28, 2008 1:34 PM by netskink

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Question:

Let's say I'm running a 32-bit version of Winodws - for example, Windows XP SP2. I have installed 4GB memory, and only between 2.5-3.34 GB are accessible to the OS. The question I have is whether or not the remaining memory is still acceable for other system operations - for example, if I created a 1GB RAM disk, leaving me with 3GB, would Windows still recognize the RAM disk and the 3GB, or would it indicate that the RAM disk and only 2GB of free memory exists? I was under the impression that the additional "wasted memory" could, in fact, be repurposed in just such a manner, and would not affect the Windows perception of "available memory" at all. Is this correct?

Monday, July 28, 2008 3:08 PM by ASilver76

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Hi Mark another excellent article thanks for posting it. Like some other posters above, I would like to hear what you recommend for pagefile / swapfile sizes.  There is very little really solid advice out there and what is documented is causing confusion as its all about how with little why and much is left unsaid.  I look after server systems with up to 64GB of RAM mostly 32 bit but we are slowly moving to 64bit Server 2003R2 as we refresh and because we have reached the 2 GB limit for some of our processes.  

We occasionally have alerts from our older 2003 sp1 machines with 8GB of RAM and a 4GB page file alerting that the page file is full, yet the server shows that there is still 500Mb or more physical memory available. It happened on a 32GB 32bit system also when as far as I could tell only 12 GB of memory was being used at the time.

My colleges feel that we should extend the pagefile beyond 4GB to 8GB, however I recall from the Sysinternals course I attended in London with yourself and David Solomon 18 months ago that maybe this is not the right thing to do on a 32bit system. As my memory is a little fuzzy now and systems have been updated and advice may have changed, some definitive written advice would be welcome.

Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:04 AM by Peter Geany

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

ASilver76: "if you have a system with 3GB or more of memory and you are running a 32-bit Windows client, you may not be getting the benefit of all of the RAM"

No, the system isn't even using it. It's not a practical limitation, it's a limitation imposed to maintain stability. The RAM is available to the computer, but it is moved above 4GB. Since some drivers (somehow) can't handle memory above 4GB, doing so would cause problems for users. So MS made the decision on 32-bit client operating systems to just not allow it.

If you want the benefit of all the RAM, use a 64-bit operating system.

Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:29 PM by Ian Boyd

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

How is it that 32-bit drivers could even be given a memory address above 4GB? If it's a 32-bit pointer, the maximum value is 32-bit.

Unless pointer has been typedef'd to a 64-bit value for a long time now?

Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:44 PM by Ian Boyd

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Who cares what physical memory mapping looks like?  Isn't that what PAE is for?  To extend page table mappings to point to >4GB addresses and, thus, allow them to be mapped into addresses <4GB?  It seems that your post could go a little further into disambiguating the user memory map from the physical memory map.  Maybe I've been running Unix for too long.

User processes don't need PCI address space mapped into them.  Device drivers would, but not user processes.

On 32 bit XP SP2, basically, they nerfed PAE support?

Wednesday, July 30, 2008 5:36 PM by David Willmore

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

I have a question about the memory hole mapped for video drivers. Is this memory hole mapped on systems that have dedicated video memory or only for ones with video memory accessed as part of the systems total available ram?

I could understand making a mapping for addressing the physical ram making on a system that used shared memory, but the other choice sounds like Memory Management by the Department of Redundancy Department.

Wednesday, July 30, 2008 10:39 PM by Rowan Hawkins

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Great article, taught me quite some things.  Thanks Mark!

Saturday, August 02, 2008 5:39 PM by Robbie Mosaic Fan

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

I still need to know in plain and simple terms, how do I add more memory to my HP Vista. At this time my memory is at 0.99

I need help soon.

Thank you

Arlona

Monday, August 04, 2008 2:30 PM by Arlona

# How to enable mem above 3G on Win XP

How do I enable more than 3G on WinXP?  It seems that with Windows SP1 or SP2, a patch was put in to limit memory to 3GB -- not 3.'x'.  But

exactly 3Gig.  I've seen this confirmed by other users.  Something to do with driver security was the reason given.

If I reboot into 32-bit linux, I see 3.5-3.7GB memory, and if I enable the PAE addressing, I see the full 4GB.

So there are two separate issues -- one is using addresses greater than 4GB to remap physical memory that overlaps device or BIOS reserved memory -- that's something that MS should have left enabled when using the "/PAE" boot switch.   If a user had a problematic driver, they could just 'not use' the PAE switch -- but better yet -- would be a RAMDISK that used any memory that would need >32bit addressing - that way 'drivers' could be shielded from ever seeing a >32bit addr, but users could still use the excess mem with only the OS seeing it.

But the need for PAE mode doesn't explain the 3GB limit.  I'm talking exactly 3GB -- not 3.1 or 3.2GB, but 3*1024MB (3072).   The only info I could find was that memory was limited in SP2 to make certain security checks on memory addressing easier or some such nonsense that didn't seem to make alot of sense.  

So how can I undo this limitation -- I do have a PAE enabled processor, and I'd even be so bold as to want to try PAE addressing mode, but even if it wasn't stable, I could at least get an extra 15-20% of memory from memory 'around' the holes reserved by the BIOS.

Monday, August 04, 2008 6:48 PM by Linda Walsh

# Memory upgrade

Hi Mark, thank you for an informative article. I'm a relative beginner to computer upgrading and found the information very useful.

I have a question, if I may?  

I'm running Vista Home Premium 32bit and have upped the RAM to 4Gb -(2x2Gb matched pair). Bios shows the full 4Gb as present but when both sticks are inserted, the computer will not boot past the POST screen. Inserting one stick only (either stick, either slot)allows a normal boot so I take that to mean both sticks and slots are functioning correctly?

A search of the web has explained a great deal re: memory utilization but I can find nothing on this specific issue. Can you shed any light for me please?

Thank you in anticipation

Richard Jones  

Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:46 AM by Richard Jones

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

My laptop have 2GB of RAM and cannot be expanded often then I use ReadyBoost to add some speed on the system.

Due to a superfetch in Vista 32bit can this lead do more memory utilization?

Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:46 PM by Thebitstream

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Great article, as always. I just wonder how long it will take before we have 2TB of RAM in our laptops. :-)

Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:32 PM by Magumi

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

To those asking about Readyboost - Readyboost is, effectively, a cache. Instead of reading data from your hard disk (which takes a relatively long time), data can be read from a flash-based cache with near-zero seek time. A file system filter handles this - it intercepts read calls for files and if the file is in the Readyboost cache, returns it.

This has nothing to do with memory address space (virtual address space, system address space etc). Having a Readyboost cache doesn't change the amount of virtual addresses that the OS will use.

The same with the pagefile. The pagefile is for storing data that doesn't fit into physical RAM (i.e. it is "paged" to the pagefile to be stored, and retrieve when required). Having a pagefile doesn't change the virtual address space that the OS is programmed to use.

@David Willmore - PAE is more than just expanding the amount of address space. NX requires PAE, because the fact that a memory page is not executable has to be stored somewhere. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension and http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2004/08/20/217683.aspx

HTH

Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:32 PM by Ken Schaefer

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Mark,

Great article and love your Internal book series.  I have a general question for you- I had the oppurtunity to read your Internal books in tandem with William Stallings Operating System book- both terrifc reads and great when paired together.  Do you know any other great books like these to read?  Thanks

Friday, August 08, 2008 7:20 AM by Alex

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

I Have two PNY 8 Gig. 2.0 Flash Drives . When I first got them they worked fine with ReadyBoost I had to re-format From FAT to NFTS Now ReadyBoost does not reconize them As being ReadyBoost capable . In other word when you open prop.Box to activate ReadyBoost the choice is not there??

Monday, August 11, 2008 7:57 AM by Robert Gifford

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

I have a strange behaviour:

The computer property page reports 5,00GB RAM with a Window Server 2008 datacenter.

BUT, if I look at the activity manager, it reports only 3966MB in use.

Any suggestion?

TIA

Paolo

Tuesday, August 12, 2008 11:59 AM by Paolo

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Hi Mark,

PFN database represents each page of memory with a 28-byte data structure, the PFN database on a 128GB system requires about 930MB.

I have a question on the above excerpt of the blog.

If 128 GB system requires about 930 MB, then why is the 4GB system occupying 960 MB.  Effectively, shouldn't it just occupy 29 MB.

Please clarify my confusion.

- Santhosh

Tuesday, August 12, 2008 2:46 PM by Santhosh

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

re: Ian Boyd

>How is it that 32-bit drivers could even

> be given a memory address above 4GB? If it's

>a 32-bit pointer, the maximum value is 32-bit.

>

>Unless pointer has been typedef'd to a 64-bit >value for a long time now?

"32 bit system" means "a virtual address is 32 bits".   The physical address size is somewhat wider (36 bits in Pentium Pro and onwards, since mid-1990s).  Likewise, 32-bit code is code that's running in an address space where the VA size is 32 bits.

For software addressing memory, the memory management unit maps 32-bit virtual into (larger) physical addresses.

For devices addressing memory via physical addresses, the driver has to not attempt to store physical addresses in 32-bit variables. That's been the case 'for a long time', but I suppose not all driver writers got that memo, which is why the artificial restriction exists in the client versions.

Tuesday, August 12, 2008 4:25 PM by dave

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

How is it that 'datacenter' versions of 32-bit Windows Server 2003 are able to support 128 GB?

I was under the impression that the Pentium family had a 36-bit physical address space, which works out as 64 GB.  Where did the extra bit come from?  

Did more recent versions of the processor grow another bit?  Maybe there's some feature of a 64-bit-capable processor in 32-bit mode that I missed?

Thanks/dave

Tuesday, August 12, 2008 4:30 PM by dave

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

PAE is implementation specific. The PTE is 64 bit in PAE mode, so there are a lot more bits in it that can be used for addressing. How many, depends on the specific CPU. Modern 64bit CPUs have a wider addressbus, and can therefore also make use of more of those bits.

Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:31 AM by jugge

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Great clarifying paper which epxlains some often misunderstood points, i think.

however, surely due to my lacking of some basis about the internals of windows memory menagement, i failed to totally understand the consequences in x64 windows systems of the reservation, done by chipset/bios if i have well understood, of some physical addresses ranges under FFFFFFFF, for devices:

if those ranges of physical addresses are statically reserved, how can a x64 win. system really use all of the physical ram ? ok, in those system also memory above 4GB can be used, but it sounded to me that that memory reserved for devices is anyway lost.

for example, in that mentioned 4GB of ram laptop with vista x64: ok it's shown that those 500MB reserved to devices below FFFFFFFF are then addressed, unlike 32bit windows, above that boundary; but if physical ram still is 4GB, how can the totality of it be avaible to the user and system purposes, if part of it it's statically reserved to devices ?

or maybe i misunderstood the definition of "physical address", related to Windows mem. management, which is implicit in this paper and it happens something like: "physical" addresses cover not only the physical ram but also the amount of disk space allocated to the file(s) pagefile.sys, so that regions reserved to devices can be swappped to disk and really 100% of physical ram can be used, if needed.

can someone help me to really understand the point ?

thanks to Mr Russinovich for the paper and to him and/or to everyone else reading my post for his/her attention

Wednesday, August 13, 2008 9:14 AM by Rick

# Lots of memory and 32 bit

A while ago we had a problem with a 32bit Enterprise version of 2003 plus SQL 2005 Enterprise. The performance wasn't as good as we expected it to be. Microsoft SQL consultants had previously said that the pagefile is not needed for a SQL server with enough (16 GB) RAM. So we set it up with 3 or 4 GB.

Then we found this: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms178067.aspx

there it says "Under Windows Server 2003, dynamic AWE memory is supported on servers with less physical memory than the configured virtual memory limit. Windows 2000 required that the available physical memory exceed the virtual memory in order to enable AWE memory."

Based upon this description we decided to do the normal 2.5x RAM sized pagefile (24GB), so that the physical memory would be smaller than the virtual memory limit... and performance improved, even though it wasn't running low on memory.

Why? Do we always need to have a larger pagefile than memory in a 32 bit environment? It just seems like a waste of space since SQL should stay in memory.

Thanks,

Brandon

Wednesday, August 13, 2008 9:15 AM by Brandon

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

i forgot in my previous comment: can anyone suggest a tool to see the layout of physical memory, like that "meminfo" mentioned in thi paper, but working on nt5.x class systems ?

thanks in advance

Wednesday, August 13, 2008 9:21 AM by Rick

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

re: Brandon's commment "Based upon this description we decided to do the normal 2.5x RAM sized pagefile (24GB)"

Fyi, although many MS formulas/defaults use RAM*n to size the pagefile, it's actually nonsense - the more RAM you have, the smaller pagefile you need to run a given set of apps.  Windows won't use more pagefile space if it's there (it just means the system has a larger commit limit).

--David Solomon

coauthor, Windows Internals (MS Press)

www.solsem.com

Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:42 PM by David Solomon

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

re: Rick's question "if those ranges of physical addresses are statically reserved, how can a x64 win. system really use all of the physical ram?"

the physical addresses are RESERVED by devices - the actual RAM is not taken up by that; however, since some amount of physical *addresses* are used up by (non-RAM) devices, the physical address for the upper part of RAM is above FFFFFFFF (e.g. the highest value you can have with 32-bits).  And since 64-bit Windows can go beyond that number, that's why it can "use" (or maybe more clearly stated "address") all the RAM.

Hope that clears it up...

--Dave Solomon

coauthor, Windows Internals

www.solsem.com

Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:45 PM by David Solomon

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Hi Mark,

I have server with Windows Standard 64-bit with 16 GB of memory. I just set page file for "none", but after reestart I notice that in Task Manager it keeps saying that I am using 6 GB of memory and what is funny is that if i go to Performance Monitor I can see that the Page FIle counter is always 0. Do you know why Task Manager shows that?

Regards,

Gus

Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:56 PM by Luiz Santos

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

So does this mean vista 32bit or xp 32bit can make full use of 3GB's? If it all shows in task manager and it gets cached so is it all really being used? It must be if it gets cached correct?

Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:08 PM by Jay

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

The Intel Pentium has a 36 bit address bus. The 36 bit address bus is connected to the external Northbridge Chip, which is also called the Memory Controller. The Northbridge Chip has a second 40 bit address bus. This second 40 bit address bus is connected to the actual dram (dynamic ram) chips.

The AMD Athelon has a 40 bit address bus. The Athelon has the Memory Controller circuitry integral to the CPU chip.

In both cases of Intel and AMD:

The maximum address space in 32 bit mode is 2^32, 4 gigabytes.

The maximum address space in 64 bit mode is 2^36, 64 gigabytes.

In both cases of 32 and 64 bit:

Any memory access outside of the maximum address space requires the much dreaded bank switching.

Bank switching works. It might seem like repairing furniture with duct tape, but it works. Therefor a 32 bit mode processor can conceivably access 2^40 bytes, 1 tetrabytes, or 1,099 gigabytes.

Actually, bank switching works except when it doesn't work. Therefor Windows 32 bit is limited to 2^32 bytes. In other words, Windows 32 bit would access 2^40 bytes if it could, but it can't, so it doesn't. Blame drivers.

The practical challange of installing huge amounts of ram is in the electronics, not the software. Supplying power to 2^40 bytes of ram is science fiction. Supplying address signals and data signals to so much ram is fantasy.

At any moment in time, Intel and AMD may increase or decrease the width of the Memory Controller address bus. Older Northbridge Cips had less than 40 bit addressing. Newer (as yet unannounced) chips may have more bits of addressing. Smaller devices, such as notebook computers, may have smaller Memory Controller chips in order to save power.

There is no way to recover the lost dram in 32 bit Windows. But 3.2 gigabytes ought to be enough for everybody.

Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:47 PM by rsbroad

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Hi Mark,

Another very interesting article.

Shame that Meminfo won't work on XP.

Nick

Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:27 PM by Nick Kotarski

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Have an acer laptop. Ugraded from 1gb to 4gb (2x 2gb) RAM. however, the system seems to be missing 2gb. some scanning software identifies the missing 2gb so the RAM must be working.

And yes the Upgrade is compatable with my system.

Any ideas????

Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:02 PM by mrAndy

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

So why not leave a way to allow access to above-4gb for those who are willing to risk it ?

Pretty soon the h/w vendors would update their drivers...

Monday, September 01, 2008 12:19 PM by prni

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Hi Mark,

Can you elaborate on the relationship between virtual and physical adresses in relation to this discussion, i.e. since each process has it's own 32 bit virual adress space, could different processes use more than 4 gb of memory if the old PAE behaviour was brought back ?

Thanks

Per

Monday, September 01, 2008 12:27 PM by prni

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Great article Mark, Thanks for defining the 4GB barrier and how 32bit and 64bit OS's deal with it. I noticed you've got two GTX 280s, very nice! I just built my power house system but had to settle for one 280. I too realized quickly after getting my new system built that I needed to ditch 32bit. 64bit Vista runs great.

Friday, September 05, 2008 12:15 AM by Bryan Fairchild

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Hello Mark, very useful article.

Could you comment a bit on the LargePageMinimum fix (KB270715). The latest nvidia drivers documentation implies that the fix is still needed for PCI Express video cards and K8/Phenom cpus. What are the implications for the memory manager/os performance?

Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:38 AM by Robo

# Adobe Flash Player

Adobe does not have a flash player for our 64 bit computers. We use the internet to get new infromation on building products. Most of the sites require Flash Player to view the products. Since Adobe does not appear interested in providing a player for 64 bit machines do you know of a alternative Player that will work.

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:14 PM by Mike

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

I want to thank Mr. Solomon for his kind and clear answer to my question

(question originated, as i said, from my holes in the knowledge of mem. management in win., not from something missing in the paper)

I'm also honored that the coauthor of "Windows Internals" took a bit of time to answer my question, thanks again.

Thursday, September 18, 2008 4:56 AM by Rick

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Why Windows itself does not use memory above 4GB for internal needs? With no dependences of h/w vendors drivers...

May be internal buffers, PFN database or something else?

Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:58 PM by const

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Mark, I know sysinternals for a long time and always wonder, where do you find this kind of information? Are they public trhough C or C++ system API/dlls?

Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:42 AM by Alex

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Very informative blog.Good work. I was working on capacity planning for VMWare and was analysing usage statistics for the current server. I was wondering how I can find out the Average memory utilization and the peak memory utilization. Looks like I should find out available MBytes and then subtract those values from the actual MBytes of memory in the server and then find out the avareage of that and peak from that

Friday, September 26, 2008 11:50 AM by Sudeep Kumar K S

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

BTW, I talked to Larry Osterman about adding the ability for 32-bit client versions of Windows to address more than 4 GB of RAM via PAE, needless to say that unfortunately failed.

Saturday, October 04, 2008 3:46 AM by Yuhong Bao

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Thank you for providing accurate information on this subject. There is so much mis-information out there being spread by "experts" that it's not even funny.

One question though. Why couldn't the RAM that gets displaced to above the 4GB mark be used for something guaranteed to be safe? Basically, you could create a separate pool for this RAM and only use it for things that are known to never use 32-bit DMA and such. Like for example, user space code pages?

Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:46 PM by Evan Teran

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

OK - then am I wasting my money if I purchase a Windows XP Pro system with 4GB of RAM and a 1.5 GB video card?

Friday, October 17, 2008 8:55 PM by PLY

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

why not have the OS make a ramdrive at the extra memory and use it for speeding-up the system, similar to how Vista can use flash memory devices for system speedup?

Wednesday, October 22, 2008 5:36 AM by George Birbilis

# re: Pushing the Limits of Windows: Physical Memory

Recently I have installed Windows 2008 32bits  on my board and it reports 1.34GB of Installed System Memory (RAM) and physically I have 1GB of Memory.

I have checked Physically Memory field from msInfo.exe tool and it indicates that system has ~ 1GB.

Do you know how I can figurate why windows increase the RAM installed?

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:54 PM by Jazmin

# Jazmin

Jaz, you likely have only 1GB (too little, btw) RAM installed, but I suspect you also have a video card with onboard RAM.

This extra RAM on the video card receives an address for mapping, and may be what you are seeing as reported/used memory mapped.

If you were to install further RAM to the full limit of 4GB, you would find that your memory in the machine can be discovered by utility tools and found to total perhaps ~4.3 GB, including both RAM and video, but only 3.5 GB will be available to the system due to this same video card taking up some of the RAM addresses.

Monday, November 10, 2008 12:19 PM by Sandman

# Why Windows XP 32bit cannot see 4GB RAM?

Here is my experience and I am looking for the answer.

Configuration:

Base: Asus T3-P5G965

Proc: Intel E6600

Video: Asus X1350

Mem: Corsair Twin2X 800 DDR2 4x1GB

BIOS: memory remap feature is enabled

(If enabled, only 2GB memory is available without PAE kernel. With this option, PAE is available.

If disabled, 2.8GB memory is available without PAE kernel. With this option, PAE is not available.)

Windows XP 32bit is not able to manage the whole physical memory, altough PAE is working as you can see in the following screenshots:

https://www.netacademia.net/sqlimage.axd?name=tudastarpic&RecordId=24348&FName=winxp32.PNG

https://www.netacademia.net/sqlimage.axd?name=tudastarpicorig&RecordId=24348&FName=taskman.PNG

https://www.netacademia.net/sqlimage.axd?name=tudastarpicorig&RecordId=24348&FName=mem.PNG

Linux:

I tried Fedora 9 and 10 x86 distribution, and the basic install OS can show 2GB memory. However, I change to the PAE versioned kernel, the whole 4GB memory is available.

Windows 2003 Server R2 Enterprise:

This Windows edition can manage the whole 4GB memory like the PAE enabled linux.

https://www.netacademia.net/sqlimage.axd?name=tudastarpic&RecordId=24378&FName=w2k3r2Ent32_props.PNG

https://www.netacademia.net/sqlimage.axd?name=tudastarpic&RecordId=24378&FName=w2k3r2Ent32_taskman.PNG

Here is the boot.ini with the default switches:

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(4)\WINDOWS="Windows Server 2003, Enterprise" /noexecute=optout /fastdetect

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

So it is sure my hardware is capable to manage 4GB RAM on the 32 bit OSs (Fedora linux, Win2K3R2Ent32)

Why the Windows XP 32bit cannot give me the whole memory while the PAE versioned kernel is used automatically as shown in the first screenshot?

Have somebody ever seen Windows XP 32bit with 4GB RAM? Or Have somebody ever seen anybody to experience this?

Thank you for your response!

Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:32 AM by nagyandor

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