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Weather or Not

A lot of people have posted wish list threads and sent in suggestions for things they'd like to see in the next version of Flight Sim. Most of us that work on it do the same thing. Our internal wish lists usually, but not always, start with bugs that were postponed from last time.

One of the individual features I was most heavily involved with on FS2004 was weather. In fact, tdragger blames me for the ugly way that visibility layers interact with terrain. I fought for that, and, yes, I'd do it again, because, bad as it was, it was better than not seeing anything at all . . . which was the only other choice.

The fact that tdragger, as the program manager in charge of weather at that time, was the only one with the actual authority to make the choice to go with my recommendation is inconvenient, and I won't bring that up here . . . Instead, I take my share of the responsibility with pride. Fire away!

Anyway, Blogger-in-Chief Jason Waskey just sent me back an old email of mine in which I listed, hastily, my personal "Top 10" (that naturally goes to 11) wishes for weather in FSX, and suggested I post it here.

How many, if any of these changes will we get in this version, or the next, or the one after that?

I can't say.

When I say I can't say, I don't mean it like I can't say big words like "deoxyribonucleic", "obtufiscation", and "mayonnaisse".

I also don't mean "I could say, but I won't, because I enjoy keeping secrets". I mean I can't say because A) some information hasn't been announced, and 2) for some of these, I just don't know yet.

With all that baggage put out there, here's my Weather Wish List, in no particular order:

  1. Real” overcast – full on 8/8 coverage with no holes.
  2. Better interaction – visibility + terrain.
  3. Gradual transitions in and out of visibility layers.
  4. Multiple visibility layers.
  5. Improved precipitation curtains (ie, no more curtains.)
  6. Falling precipitation affected by wind.
  7. No more impostors (2d "walls" of distant clouds that we draw when 3D cloud percentage is less than 100%), even on low-end. 
  8. Fog when METARS demand.
  9. Rainbows.
  10. Wind smoothing ala FSUIPC.
  11. Better forming / dissipation effects for clouds.

Time will tell, but wouldn't it be nice . . . ?

Published Friday, February 03, 2006 5:39 PM by Hal9000

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Comments

# re: Weather or Not

I'd that's a pretty good list there.
Friday, February 03, 2006 10:33 PM by oss-j.nielsen

# re: Weather or Not

Great post.

As a RL commercial pilot... PLEASE tell me you've fixed the "real overcast" issue. Regardless of all the other "nice to have" weather features, that one I would consider a bug.
Saturday, February 04, 2006 3:13 AM by Patrick

# re: Weather or Not

We can assume these are fixed for FSX or why else would you post it ;) Nice improvements, but you will notice another problem in FS9. All the clouds are 'fluffy'. None are really looking like thick cloud (even with weather addons).
Saturday, February 04, 2006 3:29 AM by Jim Jam

# re: Weather or Not

Hal thank`s for that,(graphical aspects are important), but what`s about ICING , MORE ACURATE TURBULENCIES,CROSSWINDS ,GENERALY THE WAY HOW WEATHER INFLUENCE ( NOT ONLY LOOKING) ON BEHAVIOUR ENVIRONMENT (AIRCRAFTS SPECIALY).We all know that in fs9 it`s really poor..AVS6 change it a little but generaly still weather is "harmless" and we need`t worry even in storm clouds, with thunderstorms,strong winds, and temp.far below minus 0 C....Final word- 12.MORE INTERACTIVITY and INFLUENCE ON ENVIRONMENT.
brds and keep going
Saturday, February 04, 2006 4:25 AM by martin

# re: Weather or Not

LOL!! Spinal Tap rules - anyone wondering what the "goes to eleven" is all about, here is the transcript from the movie:

Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don't know.
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.

Great list of Weather wishes too, Hal - Spot on!

Best,

Owen
Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:16 AM by OwenHewitt

# re: Weather or Not

This list looks good to me, I'd bump the visibility improvements to the top myself though. Having sudden changes in the visibility takes away from the realism far more than some holes in the overcast for me, especially the change above/below 10 miles where the colour instantly changes.

Either way the weather system in FS9 was quite impressive nonetheless, keep up the good work!
Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:45 AM by David Voogd

# re: Weather or Not

"Great post.

As a RL commercial pilot... PLEASE tell me you've fixed the "real overcast" issue. Regardless of all the other "nice to have" weather features, that one I would consider a bug."

Thanks, Patrick. I'm a pilot, too (commercial license . . . almost done since 1989)and nobody wants to see the overcast problem fixed more than we. We'll see.
Saturday, February 04, 2006 5:57 PM by Hal9000

# re: Weather or Not

"We can assume these are fixed for FSX or why else would you post it ;)"

Jim Jim - making that assumption would be a GIGANTIC mistake.

- Hal
Saturday, February 04, 2006 5:57 PM by Hal9000

# re: Weather or Not

Martin -

Good comments, thank you. If you really want to see bad turbulence, however, look at FS8 or 7 or 6 . . . The turbulence that we got in FS9 was at least a thousand times better.

And you know we already DO model icing, right? We just don't model it visually . . .

Thanks for always checking back in with me!

- Hal
Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:00 PM by Hal9000

# re: Weather or Not

"This list looks good to me, I'd bump the visibility improvements to the top myself though. Having sudden changes in the visibility takes away from the realism far more than some holes in the overcast for me, especially the change above/below 10 miles where the colour instantly changes.

Either way the weather system in FS9 was quite impressive nonetheless, keep up the good work!"

Thanks, David -

Remember, I said "in no particular order" . . .:)

- Hal
Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:01 PM by Hal9000

# re: Weather or Not

Thanks for the excerpt, Owen! In case anyone wants to listen while they read, you can click the "go to eleven" link as well.

In the meantime, Owen, continued congratulations, and get back to raising our newest customer! ;)

- Hal
Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:02 PM by Hal9000

# re: Weather or Not

thank`s again Hal..
can you comment this picture.... http://outerspace.terra.com.br/slide_show.php?dir=fotos/pc/&arquivo=1695_0060.jpg

can we see some ice or vapour on the windows...???

brds
Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:23 PM by martin

# re: Weather or Not

"thank`s again Hal..
can you comment this picture.... http://outerspace.terra.com.br/slide_show.php?dir=fotos/pc/&arquivo=1695_0060.jpg

can we see some ice or vapour on the windows...???"

Hi Martin -

No. What you are seeing is a reflection of the sky. It's noticeable on the "trapezoidal" door window, just under the wing, because that window is convex and bows out. The next window aft I believe is flat, so it seems a little odd that the sky is reflecting there the way it is, but that may just be an illusion or a mapping issue.

Either way, no ice or condensation on the windows in that shot.

Thanks!

Hal


Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:20 PM by Hal9000

# re: Weather or Not

Hi,

There is a bug in FS9 with *deicing*, though.  The piston flight model doesn't actually remove the ice weight from the plane when structural deice is turned on (even on your default Baron, for example).  Hope this gets fixed in FSX.

Thanks,

Tom Gibson
Monday, February 06, 2006 2:13 PM by tgibson

# re: Weather or Not

Any post with a Pet Sounds reference gets bonus points!
Monday, February 06, 2006 3:23 PM by TTop

# re: Weather or Not

That's right, that WAS on Pet Sounds, wasn't it? I only knew it as the recessional from your wedding! ;)
Monday, February 06, 2006 3:28 PM by Hal9000

# re: Weather or Not

"There is a bug in FS9 with *deicing*, though.  The piston flight model doesn't actually remove the ice weight from the plane when structural deice is turned on (even on your default Baron, for example).  Hope this gets fixed in FSX.

Thanks,

Tom Gibson"

Tom - Thanks for passing this along, we're looking at it right now.

Regards,

Hal
Monday, February 06, 2006 3:29 PM by Hal9000

# re: Weather or Not

Thank you for confirming that the effects of icing *are* simulated in FS - maybe that's why my 747 fell out of the sky that one time...  If you guys add more of these things that affect performance of the aircraft I hope you'll document it somewhere (such as effects of wet runways, etc.)  Thanks for the years of fun!

-Gary
Wednesday, February 08, 2006 2:36 AM by Gary Letona

# Weather Radar

Hal,

Regarding this important subject to flight simulation - weather - I have a question that maybe you could respond:

Is it true that FS2004 doesn't expose - in simulation time - to add-on developers (via API/SDK) information about individual clouds, such as location in 3D space and cloud density?

Is it possible to implement a weather radar in FS2004 that depicts exactly the same individual clouds, with their attributes (position, size and density) as seen in the simulation 3D space (scenery)?

We know there is a payware 3rd-party add-on company that has managed to implement a weather radar for FS2004. I wonder how they did that.

-Emerson
Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:03 AM by Emerson de Oliveira

# re: Weather or Not

Hi Hal, I was wondering if support for boned and rigged characters, or perhaps more generally....rules based animation might be considered for fsx?  

Bob Bernstein
Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:59 PM by Bob Bernstein

# re: Weather or Not

Hal,

I like the list.  I'm not a terribly hardcore pilot, the visuals and immersion is what does it for me, so I'd love to see a smoother transition with weather and visibility.  When it comes to weather, I think that would be number one for me.

Thanks,
Brian
Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:09 PM by Brian P. Gefrich

# re: Weather Radar

Emerson -

Yes, its true that we don't expose individual cloud information directly. I hope we do next time, but I can't say for sure. As for how the 3rd parties do it . . . Personally, I don't know, and the people around me that I might ask for theories all look really busy right now! I just hope we can do more to make it even easier for people like the wizards at Reality XP to do things like this:

http://www.reality-xp.com/products/WX5/index.htm

We shall see . . .

Thanks for reading,

Hal
Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:14 PM by Hal9000

# Boned and Rigged . . .

"Hi Hal, I was wondering if support for boned and rigged characters, or perhaps more generally....rules based animation might be considered for fsx?  

Bob Bernstein"

Hello Bob -

I can't talk too much about that here . . . other than to say that I'm aware of the technologies you mentioned.  

Maybe its time you stopped by for another visit?!?!


- Hal
Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:17 PM by Hal9000

# re: Weather or Not

It would be nice to see you again, love to stop by.  I'll buy lunch!
Bob
Friday, February 17, 2006 2:16 AM by Bob Bernstein

# re: Weather or Not

Here, here! I am glad some one else noticed the ground/cloud incursions. Living in Colorado at 7500', it gets tiresome going seeing the clouds on the ground all the time.
Monday, April 10, 2006 1:04 PM by Bill Dyer

# re: Weather or Not

Hey Hal, Everything I see in FSX so far looks far beyond my expectations haha.  Anyway one question, I noticed the new implemented accumulating snow, if so would it accumulate on a players airplane if per say sitting on the ramp?  A neat feature, would be the idea to have to de-ice with a good ol Glycol bath, to cause only more virtual delays in the virtual airline world haha.  Love your blogs, keep up the good work FS team!
Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:23 PM by Jeff Favignano

# re: Weather or Not

Awsome job on the sim. The list looks good. I for one enjoy doing a lot of serious IFR practice with FS2004 as I am a RL ATPL pilot. I can say the weather transition was the one I found most "eye brow raising". Better visual merging of METAR's, TAF's, and AF's would greatly improve the overall immersiveness of the sim
Friday, June 30, 2006 9:31 PM by Thad

# re: Weather or Not

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# re: Weather or Not

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# re: Weather or Not

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# re: Weather or Not

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# re: Weather or Not

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