User Groups and Community

Hi!

I will publish here, again, the answer to Bart, I think it explains a lot :

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Hi, Bart !

First of all, at March 15 we did 224 events in the same day.

224 events around the country !

The initial idea was 20 or 30, but I get the idea bigger, a lot bigger, and Culminis helped a lot with this. Sure Ineta and Microsoft worked and helped also, but I in doubt if we could do this without Culminis.

"I have read they are giving money, but that is only the last year as before that this service was never an available(e.g. in EMEA tax-implications are causing more problems than advantages). "

Here we haven't this problem, not yet. Each user group leader solve this problem in his way. One year is much time. I travelled to cape verde with Culminis money, I speaked in Fortaleza (more than 2 thousand KM from my house) with Culminis money, a lot of the events of March 15 was supported by Culminis money and I will travel this year again with Culminis money. Some of the user group leaders that commented here also had this benefit.

We never had this before. That's not an easy thing here. That's important and will be changed by this decision.

"Secondly I hear they are supporting Developers, SQL and IT Pro, which means in principle playing in the area of INETA and PASS and that was not the plan according to Microsoft. I understand why it happens as the INETA and PASS didn't help you, but don't understand how it can be that different."

Our country is big, too big. So user group leaders motivate other user group leaders to create regional groups. With Culminis, the support is quickly for any group and that's a very good thing.

"Microsoft has employees whose job is to support community, what is the difference between a Culminis paid person and a Microsoft paid person?"

With this question you try to open a box that can't be opened. I can garantee to you that I'm in the corner for enough time to know that the difference is too big.

Let's say a simple example : In all these years with the community, more than one time I answered my phone and someone told me something like this : "Hi, I'm new here, at Microsoft and now I'm the responsable by communities relation. Can you tell me who you are and how we can work together ?" . Understand my point ? Sundely all the memory about your contribution to communities just desapears and all the politics about how the support is done just change.

I can't understand microsoft international employees politics, I just can ensure to you that a long time support planning (is this right in English language?) doesn't work with today international employees politics that microsoft uses.

I can't tell anything more in a comment box, and I'm sure I already told too much.

About MS Corp. Support, just need to say that MS Corp. never understood the structure of Heroes Community Launch we did (224 events in the same day!) and that's one point more to Culminis.

"Is this the independency?"

Culminis employees fight against MS employees to turn our ideas into reallity and that's great.

MS employees always have too much things in mind.

"Are the Brazilian leaders able to tell us in bullet-points the 3-5 key deliverables you have received over the last years you have never received from Microsoft (INETA, PASS) directly? And are these deliverables coming from the whole Culminis organisation or are you receiving them mainly from Emilio and Vicki as people can make the difference here."

1) Constant comunication with user group members and money prizes

2) money sponsorship

3) Sharepoint portal

4) User group interaction analysis (TheVoice, Surveys, 5 levels of user groups)

5) Interesting motivation to create new things (IT Hero program)

These five are global resources.

Dennes

Hi, Graham !

You said that you would like to make the support in the rest of the world better without reducing Brazilian support.

I beg you, believe me, if you put the support in the hands of Microsoft you will reduce it, reduce it a lot, so, don't do this.

In a comment box, there isn't too much I can say to prove it. Let's try :

1) MS Corp never understood the structure of HCL here (224 events in one day!). For MS Corp, things need to be in their way and just that. We changed it for HCL. We changed the things and instead of ask to us about that and talk to us to discover how to get better, my felling about this is that MS Corp see us as a problem because we break rules. We saw MS Corp as a turtle, because its too slow to follow the community needs.

2) Culminis employees fight against Microsoft employees to make our ideas became reality. If the support was passed to Microsoft, who will do that ?

3) Microsoft Brazil has small memory. Employees start and leave too quickly, community memory is lost and departments don't talk too much to share their memory. If Microsoft get the core services task, that's the receipt to a disaster.

Dennes

Hi !

I'm publishing here my answer to Susan in the other topic, I think its related to this topic too, tell me if I shouldn't do this :

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Hi, Susan !

"Is it perhaps that there is a team in Brazil making the difference?"

Is almost the oposite.

Sure we have a great team in Microsoft Brazil, always helping comunity (not like Culminis), but because MS way to work, this team is instable, always changing and when change happens, rules changes.

Culminis support isn't tied with Microsoft support. Culminis survey is a global resource (each month this year a diferent NORAM group earned the survey too) and I can ask money to Culminis at any time. Each quarter I have a money limit to do events, just needing to give feedback about the events.

Dennes

Traduzindo o post de Graham Watson:

Por que a Culminis faz tanto sucesso no Brasil

A partir dos comentários (obrigado) que recebi da comunidade sobre as mudanças que estamos fazendo no Suporte a Grupos de Usuários, é óbvio que o Brasil tem sido um exemplo brilhante de como devemos fazer isso.

O propósito deste post é permitir que os líderes de grupos de usuários Brasileiros definam o que eles exatamente o que funcionou para eles.

Se você for da comunidade brasileira de grupos de usuários, por favor deixe aqui seu comentário e nos deixem saber o que tem sido tão bom em suas experiências....

I will explain my relationship with the culminis. I am leading a group acting in the north regîão to parents. Region is that is developing and that there is not big business of technology and the residents have no access to technology innovations.

Our group of users was born with the goal of filling that space, promoting events and speak to bring the population to technological innovations.

In 4 years existentei ja palestramos or organize events in excess of 15 thousand people we work in all cities.

I had that on several occasions by taking money from the pocket unable to companies or organisations to help the costs.

Once I join the culminis everything was easier, access organizations, professional and financial support has occurred quietly.

I think the model's work culminis in brazil should rather be copied and implemented in other regions of the world with the same speed, professionalism and seriousness.

During the HCL were 224 events, this is not just people. It is a great deal and that thanks to the support of culminis and emilio was possible ..

I have to say wonders and could write a book on the great respect and commitment between the culminis and users ..

hugs

Marcel Freitas

Leader of Group

MCP - MCDST - MSP

Acredito que a Culminis alcancou esse enorme sucesso no Brasil, devido a organização e respito aos grupos. Como foi dito anteriormente, antes os grupos eram dispersos e sem nenhuma organização. Hoje temos grupos com reuniões mensais, eventos mensais e vários líderes trocando informações e idéias.

Acredito que o modelo adotado aqui no Brasil, deva servir de exemplo e molde para futuras alterações.

Só para citar um exemplo: Temos visto que vários eventos realizados em Universidades/Faculdades, não tem atraido tantos profissionais ou público em si! Com isso a opção por locais isentos como centros de convenções, auditórios ou outros, tem sido uma opção mais profissional. Com o apoio financeiro da Culminis, muitos grupos tem conseguido realizar eventos em locais diferentes de Universidades/Faculdades. Esse foi um enorme passo da Culminis.

Acredito que esse ponto e essa forma de apoio deva ser levado em consideração!

Acredito no trabalho de profissionais engajados nesse tipo de atividade, e sei que muitos conseguirão continuar seu trabalho, no entanto outros que estejam começando não terão a mesma desenvoltura.

Como o Emílio mencionou, boa parte dos profissionais envolvidos em grupos, acabam tendo uma notoriedade que, devido ao trabalho, acabam se afastando da Comunidade e acredito que isso possa vir a ocorrer com maior frequência pois os incentivos e apoio serão mais restritos.

Saudações,

Alexandro PRado

MVP Windows Desktop Experience

Grupo MS-InfraRio/MSRio.NET

I'm Herleson Pontes, Brazilian from Ceará. I wish to share with you how Culminis way of work changed my state nad the IT Professional community.

Here, Microsoft Brazil events only reachs the southeast area, specially São Paulo, where the main office is located. It's only one state, from a group of 25.

About three to four years ago, the IT Professionals of Ceará doesn't even know what products Microsoft offers, because there was never an event here. The only way to update their knowlegde was pay an air ticket (something around US$ 650) to fly to São Paulo. Include there the cost of Hotel, Food, etc. It was really expensive.

When I first knew about user groups, I saw there an opportunity to change the way of how IT Professionals and Developers could reach information. I saw great professionals from all parts of Brazil presenting events in my state, all thanks to Culminis way of supporting UG.

My group (Office.CE) is one of the most present UG of Brazil. We realize more than two events per month, talking to IT Pros and Developers abouts things like EBS, SQL Server 2008, Windows Server, Vista, Office. etc.

Last week, I traveled to other state (Piauí) to show IT Pro an overview of Microsoft solutions, SQL Server 2008 and Windows Vista. There was 110 participants. All thanks to Culminis help and support.

We are planning a great event, like TechEd, for IT Professionals from all states of the northeast of Brazil. It will be two days, in the Convetion Center of the city, that will host more than 30 events, showing everything about Microsoft. We're planning to bring to here presenters from many states of Brazil. This will never be possible with Microsoft Brazil, 'cause they don't give us this kind of support. We're counting with Culminis Event Support to make things happen.

Another problem is what Alexandro told before: events in Universities are seen like "Academic" events, and some professionals runs away, thinking that the event will be a basic one. With Culminis help, we can rent a place to realize them, turning the event more professional.

To end, the HCL example is reaaly the best. In USA, Microsoft visisted more than 30 cities, realizing events. In Brazil, the HCL were 100% realized by UGs. I don't think that Microsoft Brazil would visit every state realizing these events.

Don't change a team that is winning. I thing that changes MUST be done with INETA, turning it like Culminis. The .NET developers needs it!

Acho bastante louvavel essa atitude de trarsformar o culminis em uma instituição voluntária, no entanto esse modelo não funciona muito bem por aqui, e não me agrada a idéia de descentralizar o culminis, demitindo funcionários do mais alto gabarito que estão sendo pagos para dar suporte aos grupos e colocar pessoas "indicadas", que farão um trabalho "voluntário", até agora particulamente sempre que precisei de alguma informação fui prontamente atendido sem nenhuma burocracia, será vai continuar tão agil e pratica como está agora?!

 Sou a favor de continuar como está pois de outra forma favorecerá o que chamamos no Brasil de "Politicagem", onde nem sempre as pessoas que mereciam exercer tal cargo não estão neles e outras pessoas que não tem carater nem competencia estão simplemente por indicação.

  Em time que está ganhando não se meche!

  Sou Líder do Primeiro Grupo de Desenvovedores Culminis do Piauí, e recentemente fomos os ganhadores da pesquisa mensal culminis, o que nos proporcionara realizar um evento com um nivel mais elevado, a aquisição de verbas para a realização de eventos aqui no Piauí é extremamente complicado, e atraves do culminis essa dificuldade foi sanada, pois temos um canal direto com o Culminis, da forma que será feito, não só perderemos esse canal como não teremos mais garantia de que esses repasses serão feitos de forma tansparente como está sendo, independente da região do Brasil, TODOS os grupos tem direitos iguais.

James Jefferson de Sá Silva

Líder da Célula Acadêmica Floriano Cell.Net

Líder do Grupo de Desenvolvedores Culminis FlorianoCell (o primeiro do Piauí).

Translating Alexandro Prado's comment:

I believe that Culminis reached this great success due to organization and respect to the User Groups. As said before, some time ago, User Groups were disperse and with no organization. Now we have User Groups with monthly meetings, monthly events and many leaders changing information and ideas.

I believe that the model adopted here in Brazil can be used as a template and model for future changes.

Just to show you an example: We have seen many events realized in universities with poor public. So, "exempt" locations as convention centers, auditoriums or others has been a more professional option. With Culminis financial support, many User Groups have succeeded in realize events in this kind of location. This was a big step from Culminis.

I believe that this point and this way of support must be take into account!

I believe in the job conducted by commited professionals in this kind of activity, and I know that many others will succeed in the proceed this job, however, begginers will have the same nimbleness.

As Emilio said, a number of professionals engaged in User Groups, have some success, due to their jobs, move away of the User Groups and I believe that it can occurs with a high number of times because the incentives and support will be more limited.

Regards,

Alexandro PRado

MVP Windows Desktop Experience

Grupo MS-InfraRio/MSRio.NET

Translating James Jefferson's comment:

I think it's very praiseworthy this attitude to turns Culminis in a volunteer institution, but this model doesn't work very well here and I don't like the idea to decentralize Culminis, firing highly skilful employees that have been payed to support our groups and put some "indicated" people that will do a "volunteer" job. Up to now, in particular, always I needed any information I was immediately answered with no burocracy. Will it continue so fast and practical like we have now?!

I'm in favor of it continue like it is, because if it will go in another way, it will in favor of what in Brazil we call "petty politics", where not always people who should deserve that job title are there and others, that have no character and even competency areb there just because they were indicated.

We don't change a winner's team.

I'm Leader of the first Culminis Developer's Group of Piaui and recently we were winners of a monthly Culminis survey, what will help us to organize an event with a higher level, getting funds to organize events in Piaui is very hard and with Culminis this pain was healed, because we have a direct channel with Culminis, the way it is, we will loose this channel and we will not have the guarantee that these deliveries will be so clearly like it's done today, independent of the Brazil's region, with ALL groups with same rights.

James Jefferson de Sá Silva

Leader of Floriano Cell.Net Academic Cell

Leader of FlorianoCell Developers UG

Culminis support is simply great. Emilio really helps us a lot by sending us financial support, which would be very difficult to Microsoft as it have to follow too many tax laws UGs and Culminis dont.

Other than financial support, which of course is great, Culminis also gives us technical content, visibility, heads up and a central point to contact all user groups.

I believe the best way is to keep things just like they are today. This way we have to point of support: Microsoft AND Culminis.

MS can help us a lot with content and technical issue and then Culminis helps us with money and point of communication. Two teams work great separated, so please dont join and mix them as it can be bad.

They will get overwhelmed by requisitions. Dont change two winning teams, as there will be the risk to end up with a loosing team.

O Culminis ajuda bastante os grupos de usuários no Brasil. É com ajuda deles, que dezenas de eventos mensais são produzidos, se não fosse o Culminis, os grupos de usuários não teriam tanta força.

Com o enfraquecimento e tornando o Culminis uma entidade sem fins lucrativos, com certeza os grupos de usuários vão sentir, e só quem tem a perder, é toda a comunidade. Pois, sem esses eventos, fica difícil o nosso trabalho de ajudar a compartilhar conhecimentos com outros usuários.

O Culminis participa ativamente no Brasil, e isso deveria ser tido como exemplo e tentar aplicar em outros países.

Com relação ao que o nosso amigo Helerson falou, acredito que sem a disponibilidade de gestão da Culminis no Brasil, através do Emílio, nosso trabalho não seria possível. Me considero um exemplo vivo do que a Culminis  tem feito pelos grupos no Brasil. Outro exemplo é o próprio Helerson e o Grupo Office.CE.

O Carlos, pede algo que todos pedimos: Vamos manter o que está pois é um exemplo que está dando muito certo no Brasil.

Saudações,

Alexandro Prado

Translation of Pablo Weyne's comment:

Culminis helps User Groups in Brazil a lot. It's with Culminis help that dozens of monthly events are organized, if Culminis wasn't hre, User Groups wouldn't be so powerful.

With this weaken and turning Culminis into a volunteer entity, I'm sure that User Groups will feel that, and they will only loose, it's all the community. Because, without it's events, it will be hard our work of helping other, sharing knowledge with other users.

Culminis participates in an active way in Brazil, and this should be an example to try to implement in other countries.

Translation of Alexandro Prado's comment:

In relation to what our friend Herleson said, I believe that without the availability of management of Culminis in Brazil, through Emilio Mansur, our work wouldn't be possible. I consider myself a live example of what Culminis have done for User Groups in Brazil. Another example is the Office.CE UG itself..

Carlos asks for something that all we are asking for: To keep what we have, because it's an example of what's working in a very good way in Brazil.

Regards,

Alexandro Prado

Escrevo em Português mais adiante, vai lendo...

Hello!

Now that Culminis has started a survey asking leaders about this transformation, I feel better to share some words with you.

PASSION AND MATURITY

====================

Passion is a thing that really exists in all the comments here.

In Brazil there is a lot of passion, but we really need more experience and more maturity. To solve that, only time :)

TO CALM DOWN BRAZILIAN LEADERS

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My friends, as Graham said, services will continue.

Not exactly in the same way, but services will be available after this change.

I know that all changes causes some reaction, but let's give them a try.

Let's think globally. In Brazil is working, in some places os LATAM are working too.

But I heard a lot during my last two MVP Summits about unsatisfied Leaders.

RECIPE OF SUCCESS?

==================

When I was invited to be Culminis representative, I was in a comfortable situation because I had founded some User Groups and I have some experience with people and with Microsoft.

I know what is the pain of a new leader and a experienced leader in Brazil. Their needs and difficulties.

So when Culminis gave me the lemons...

To make a good job, one of the things that was in my mind was "EVERYTHING IS INTEREST". And please, consider it a good thing.

Who is my main sponsor? Microsoft.

- Microsoft, what do you want?

- Numbers! I need people joining the User Grups. I need events. I need people in events.

- And event about what?

- Bla, bla, bla...

WHo are my clients? User Group Leaders.

- Leader, what do you want?

- I don't know how to... (get a sponsor - organize an event - grow my UG).

- Please, do this and that. What about an event of bla, bla, bla?

- Great! I need X and Y.

- Microsoft? I have X. Can you give me Y? SO I can give you your numbers, events and people.

And, together with that, I tried to be available. Even with my delays in Live Messenger and e-mails :}

==*== PT-BR ==*==

Alô!

Agora que a Culminis começou uma pesquisa perguntando aos seus líderes sobre esta mudança, me sinto melhor para compartilha algumas palavras com vocês.

PAIXÃO E MATURIDADE

===================

Paixão é uma coisa que realmente existe em todos os comentários aqui.

No Brasil há muita paixão, mas realmente precisamos de mais experiência e maturidade. Para resolver isso, somente o tempo :)

PARA ACALMAR LÍDERES BRASILEIROS

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Meus amigos, como Graham disse, os serviços continuarão.

Não exatamente da mesma forma, mas os serviços estarão disponíveis após esta mudança.

Eu sei que todas as mudanças causam alguma reação, mas vamos dar-lhes uma chance.

Vamos pensar globalmente. No Brasil está funcionando, em alguns locais da América Latina está funcionando também.

Mas eu ouvi muito durante os dois últimos MVP Summits sobre Líderes insatisfeitos.

RECEITA DE SUCESSO?

===================

Quando fui convidado para ser um representante Culminis, eu estava em uma situação confortável porque já tinha fundado alguns Grupos de Usuários e eu já tinha alguma experiência com pessoas e com Microsoft.

Conheço qual a dor de um novo líder e de um líder experiente no Brasil. Suas necessidades e dificuldades.

Então quando a Culminis me deu limões...

Para fazer um bom trabalho, uma das coisas que estava em minha mente era "TUDO É INTERESSE". E por favor, considerem isso uma coisa boa.

Quem é meu principal patrocinador? Microsoft.

- Microsoft, o que você quer?

- Números! Preciso de pessoas participando de Grupos de Usuários. Preciso de eventos. Preciso de pessoas em eventos.

- E eventos sobre o quê?

- Bla, bla, bla...

Quem são meus clientes? Líderes de Grupos de Usuários.

- Líder, o que você quer?

- Não sei como... (conseguir patrocinadores - organizar um evento - aumentar meu Grupo).

- Por favor, faça isto e aquilo. Que tal um evento sobre bla, bla, bla?

- Ótimo! Preciso de X e Y.

- Microsoft? Eu tenho X. Você pode me dar Y? Então eu lhe darei seus números, eventos e pessoas.

E, junto a isso, tentei estar disponível. Mesmo com meus atrasos no Live Messenger e e-mails :}

Creio que está havendo uma definição errada por parte da Microsoft em querer transformar o Culminis em uma organização sem fims lucrativos. Se formos ver na essência,o Culminis já é.Até o ponto que eu sei, ninguém leva lucro algum,pelo contrário, na maioria das vezes colocam recursos do próprio bolso para as atividades do grupo,sendo para custear aluguel de auditório, despesas de locomoção, etc... . A vinda do Culminis para o Brasil facilitou e incentivou mais o fomento dos grupos.

O apoio foi fundamental para o crescimento. Não vou ser repetitivo e enumerar os benefícios que o Culminis trouxe, pois já foram amplamente ditos pelos meus colegas líderes de grupo. Todos tem a ciência e creio que o Culminis também. Os recursos que são fornecidos aos grupos são muito bem geridos e a transparentes. O fato de haver uma ou duas pessoas que recebem rendimentos do Culminis, na minha percepção,não descaracteriza de "organização sem fins lucrativos". Temos vários exemplos de organizações com essa finalidade,que tem funcionários e nem por isso deixam de ter esse propósito. Acredito que haja uma unânimidade na questão da permanencia no formato atual.Temo que uma mudança dessas possa ocasionar uma queda considerável dos serviços prestados ocasionando assim uma frustração e esvaziamento dos grupos.

Saudações a todos

Marcio Peixoto

Líder de Grupo ( GetWindows )

MCP,MCSA,MCSE,MCITP,MCTS

Hi, Graham,

So, that's it !

Now with the presence of Campina Grande (PB) and Porto Alegre (RS), all the 5 Brazilian geographic regions are here, complaining about the changes and asking you : Don't do this.

Not only Brazil, but you also find in the comments people from Peru (LATAM) and from NORAM telling how Culminis helped their user groups.

The point is : After all these comments, will Microsoft say sorry and get back about this decision or will Microsoft act as the person that put the hand in the fire just to see if it burns as everyone else has told ?

Dennes

A intenção me parece boa, mas até que ponto as decisões serão multi-culturais? Haverá critério diferenciado sobre as diferente comunidades no mundo? Sim, porque um grupo de usuários no Brasil pensa e executa de forma diferente de um grupo da Ásia, por exemplo. Temo que as coisas fiquem cada vez mais difíceis se tirar o controle da Culminis de apoiar os grupos no Brasil.

Cito o caso do meu grupo (WITS Brasil), onde somente através da Culminis ele cresceu em força na localidade onde atua e em mais de 1000% o número de membros em apenas 2 anos. Parte disto foi o apoio financeiro direto (via solicitação ou sorteio) que viabilizou realizar com mais qualidade os eventos, pagar provas de certificação aos membros mais ativos e influenciar a comunidade técnica e acadêmica da região, dentre várias outras atividades.

Temo que esta transformação da Culminis esfrie os animos dos líderes e membros de grupos no Brasil, acarretando baixa produtividade ou até mesmo "falência" dos grupos (ou da idéia de se criar um com base em nossos testemunhos) e/ou descompromisso com campanhas para realização de eventos, por exemplo.

Pior se a Culminis se tranformar numa Ineta, que, como bem diz um líder de grupo amigo meu, está mais para "Inerte" frente a capacidade de promover e desenvolver os grupos de usuários... mas isto não vem ao caso agora (será este o revolucionário modelo que a querem para a Culminis?).

Torço para esta discussão tenha efeito prático e não apenas "Ibope". Mas se de fato esta transformação for inevitável, infelizmente temos que esperar para ver o que acontece. Só não quero pagar para ver -- e muito menos se cobrado pelo fracasso da não tentativa de reverter esta situação.

Torço para o melhor e que Deus nos ajude!

Weliton Junior

WITS Brasil User Group Lead