User Groups and Community

While this change is one that will entail considerable adjustments on the part of the community and Culminis, I am excited at the prospect of more and deeper engagement with the IT Pros around the world.

We have as you said above, been a champion for ALL of the IT Pro Community regardless of their preferred technology. From the beginning, we have committed our efforts to supporting the community in every way possible. From our Core Services to the entire community to mentoring and working directly with user groups (both new and established)around the world, our focus has always been the greatest service to the greatest number with equity and fairness.

The user group comunity is a strong and powerful force in the propogation and integration of new and emerging technologies. Its leaders are among the finest and most dedicated professionals in the world. The Culminis staff have been honored to serve the community and be a part of them.

This change is being done to evolve to the next level where we will now be able to tap in to the resources of Microsoft to provide services and support to the ever widening audience in exciting and innovative ways.

I look forward to the transition and pledge to do all I can to insure that no services to any of you are interrupted and continue to support and help grow this great community.

On behalf of the Culminis staff, thank you to all those who have worked with us and contributed to the massive effort that has resulted in the Culminis Alliance. We are not going away, we are merely evolving to the next level.

I look forward to continuing that journey with all of you.

I do not know if any of work directly with Culminis directly, but you may want to check out the recent

Hi Graham,

Thanks for sharing this with us. I think moving to a volunteer organisation will create much more acceptance in the IT Pro community. This is a remarkable step taken by Microsoft especially as now all communities around the world will be able to get an equal service offering, independent of the technology they focus on. And it seems in the future the community can choose themselves from whom they take these core-services.

I know from experience (being the Regional Director of Culminis EMEA for almost 3 years and a user group leader since 14 years) there are advantages when you receive a salary to support communities as this will free up your time to 100% focus on the community compared to a volunteer job where there are all different distracters of your focus  like family, friends, and your day-job. In the end passion will always be the key driver to work in the community eco-system.

I fully understand this is not something you can change overnight, but I am only puzzled on the concept of how you see the volunteer based organisation with a 100% Microsoft funded Culminis company? For a transition period I can understand their role, but how do you see the role of Culminis Inc. in comparison to e.g. Ineta after the transition period?

Will Microsoft offer equal core services via both organizations with the differentiation via extra services and technology knowledge offered (dev, it pro, sql etc.). Is the plan to make Ineta and Culminis similar, but only with a different technology focus?

Again thank you for sharing this information and the support from Microsoft to the communities. Working with many user group leaders around the world I can say that there is no other vendor who puts so much effort in communities than Microsoft, thank you.

Bart Martens

CommunityWorks

www.communityworks.eu

To help Brazilian User Group Leaders give their opinion, I translated the text. I can translate their comments, too.

Para ajudar os Líderes de Grupos de Usuários Brasileiros, eu traduzi o texto. Eu irei traduzir seus comentários também.

Anunciando algumas mudanças-chave na forma de Suporte a Grupos de Usuários Microsoft

Como você deve saber, sou um gerente sênior de marketing na Microsoft e meu foco é em comunidades técnicas e como a Microsoft pode lhes dar um melhor suporte. Gostaria de avisar a todos sobre algumas mudanças importantes que estamos realizando em conjunto com a Culminis, a qual foi criada para trazer melhorias na forma como a Microsoft poderia dar suporte a Grupos de Usuários e como os Grupos de Usuários e seus membros poderiam interagir com a Microsoft.

Primeiro, deixe-me esclarecer: a Microsoft considera as “raízes” dos Grupos de Usuários como sendo um núcleo da comunidade no desenvolvimento e entrega de nossos programas de negócios e ferramentas de desenvolvimento. Nenhuma comunidade é mais importante. Nos comprometemos com literalmente milhões de membros de Grupos de Usuários em todo o mundo de forma constante. Isso nos dá um discernimento sem valor sobre como um Profissional de Infra-Estrutura e um Desenvolvedor realmente querem e realmente pensam. Isso, em contrapartida, nos ajuda a dar a você formidáveis softwares e recursos, sem mencionar os maravilhosos momentos em eventos como o TechEd!

Estamos sempre pensando sobre como melhorar as formas que trabalhamos e damos suporte às comunidades em todo o mundo. Desta forma, estamos emocionados sobre algumas mudanças que estamos fazendo com a Culminis que acreditamos irão ajudar a comunidade tremendamente. Adoraria ouvir o que você pensa, portanto deixe seu comentário …

A Culminis tem sido uma campeã incansável da comunidade de TI por diversos anos. A INETA tem feito o mesmo pelos desenvolvedores, mas sendo uma organização puramente voluntária. Achamos que cada modelo tem seus benefícios e juntos com o time de gerenciamento da Culminis, decidimos fazer as seguintes mudanças: -

1. A Culminis se tornará uma organização voluntariada, muito similar à INETA, com equipes regionais.

• A nomeação da equipe inicial sera feita pela Microsoft e Culminis.

• A equipe inicial permanecerá por apenas um ano, e então serão substituídos por membros eleitos pela comunidade.

1. A Microsoft irá fornecer diretamente os seguintes “core services,” muitos deles já fornecidos atualmente pela Culminis.

• Event Support

• Community Development

• Content Delivery

• User Group recognition and reporting

• Newsletter support.

1. Os core services estarão disponíveis aos novos voluntários da comunidade Culminis e INETA, assim como para outras associações, como PASS. Achamos que isto é particularmente vantajoso para a comunidade como um todo, e isso garante à Microsoft que o apoio estará disponível à todos os Grupos de Usuários, não somente aos de Profissionais de TI.

Estas são algumas mudanças significativas e elas não irão ocorrer da noite para o dia – nossa expectativa é que leve dois meses ou mais antes que a nova estrutura esteja totalmente funcional. Por favor, acompanhe este blog para acompanhar o progresso!

E não esqueça – eu realmente gostaria de saber seu feedback sobre isso – por favor, sinta-se à vontade para comentar neste blog ou enviar-me um e-mail diretamente em graham.watson@microsoft.com

Hi, Graham!

My English vocabulary isn't enough to express what I'm feeling about this (Sad? Unhappy?).

I'm from Brazil, Rio de Janeiro. I work with these communities since the beginning. Before these communities started to work here, I created a big technical website and that was the start of a community.

When Ineta arrived in Brazil, my user group organized one of the 3 cities in the first INETA Roadshow in the country (Recife, Rio, Brasilia, my user group organized Rio event).

When I first read about Culminis, I registered my IT user groups with Culminis and motivate other people to do the same. I was member of the first Brazilian Culminis Council.

When I discovered about SQL PASS, I created a PASS Chapter, until now there is only this PASS Chapter in Brazil.

I work with microsoft events, using Microsoft resources for events, since before INETA arrived here.

So, with all this, I'm saying that I know how Microsoft works, I know how Ineta works, I know how Culminis works and I know how SQL PASS works (just a little about this last one). Maybe I don’t know how they work in USA, but I know how they work here, in Brazil.

A few weeks ago I made a travel to Cape Verde, near Senegal, in Africa, to do an entire week of events and an interview for local televisions about academic programs, MSDN AA, and things like that.

While traveling, I passed by Fortaleza, another city in Brazil, and stop a little to do a speech there, the public loved.

All this travel was paid by Culminis money. This year I will also do another travel already paid by Culminis money.

COMTEC, a big event in Fortaleza, with 800 people registered for the event, received Culminis money for its organization and that was great.

ENECOMP in Paraiba, an event for 1.500 people, received money from Culminis for the event and that was the only Microsoft money they received until now.

At the start of this year Microsoft proposed a big event in March 15, Heroes Community Launch. Not so big, just a simultaneous event in some cities. I talked with a lot of people and organized 59 events in different cities in the country. I motivated other people to do the same and because that we had 104 events in the same day and up to 224 if we add the remote events in the same day.

The important secret about this: Microsoft became crazy with all these events being organized by community in the same day. Culminis leader in Brazil was the first person to stay at my side and help me in this organization, if I didn’t get this support I don’t know if I could support the problems and make this event happens.

So, with all my knowledge and experience about the communities since they started here, I can tell you: You are destroying the best work with communities that we have here. Great things started with Culminis, big things are being done with Culminis and you will destroy Culminis with this change, exactly like Ineta, that never worked here and since now, 6 years later their start, they still trying a new beginning with the community.

The solution, Microsoft supporting user groups, was already tried here by a lot of years, in a lot of different ways and never worked well.  So, transferring the core services to Microsoft, here in Brazil is equivalent to destroy them. Culminis make these services work and that’s the better feature we have for our community.

Volunteer organization doesn’t work in our country. Ineta is still trying to establish their work here, 6 years after they arrived. SQL PASS doesn’t support us. I already asked them about to give to Brazil the same services they offer to US groups in their mail list, and received no answer.

The intention to make core services work for INETA and SQL PASS is a great idea, but destroy Culminis for that is the worse idea in the history of all bad ideas already created.

Next month I’m going to Amazonas, for whom would I ask financial support for the events I will do there? May I ask to INETA? SQL PASS? Microsoft? They never gave financial support for events.

I'm very disappointed with the destruction of the better resource our community has, and just to make everyone has the same resource: zero.

(Sorry by my terrible English, I don’t speak English well)

Dennes Torres

ASP.NET MVP

devASPNet User Group Leader (Culminis and Ineta member)

devSQL User Group Leader (First Brazilian Culminis group and the only Brazilian PASS Chapter)

getWindows User Group Leader (Culminis member)

Good news I must say.

I'm very much interested to see what changes in terms of support I can see for my region. I'm from Dubai United Arab Emirates and have been doing very .... very hard to promote the IT using my user group. There is a good potential but at the same side lack of support from Microsoft. Microsoft help us here but not that much as compared to other regions I've noticed. I'm in my 4th year of running my user group but still doing it my own. Culminis didn't work for me since the Bart left.

I hope that now ug will have direct support and correpondance with Microsoft and ask for the support they are looking for. I know this change will not havppen overnight but I'd happy to see these things in action in the future.

Good luck

Dennes,

I am glad to hear you have received money for many events from Culminis and were able to extend your knowledge and message. One of the biggest challenges in the community eco-system is the difference in regions and approach. Brazil and Latin America are not the same nor is EMEA. In the past many concepts did work in the US, but not in other regions and this is and will be one of the biggest challenges for Microsoft.

Based on my experience I can say that INETA EMEA is doing a great job and is very supportive to their user group leaders and this also shows that you can't just put everything under the same umbrella.

The same counts for the money you have received. You have received multiple times cash, whereas in EMEA I know several user groups requested cash from Culminis, but never received it. Next to this are tax-implications for receiving cash money, although in the user group, is directly added to you annual income.

Having at least the core services equal worldwide independent of technoly area is, in my opinion, a big step towards the community and not to be taken lightly.

But I can understand your frustration as other community options, as you have expressed, didn't work in your region, but for sure not on a global basis.

From my village I can cross 2 country borders in just 20 minutes and have to speak three different languages; Dutch, German, French and deal with 3 different cultures, which makes a common approach very difficult, but not impossible.

Having passionate people in the voluntary board who can/will make decisions and show progress to the community will be key criteria to make the new approach a success.

Personally I am more than willing to offer my knowledge and experience to the benefit of the community as that is something I am already doing for over 14 years, passion for communities can't be explained ;-)

Bart Martens (MVP)

CommunityWorks

www.communityworks.eu

Hi, Bart !

I know there are a lot of differences around the world and that's exactly the point. This change isn't planned thinking about these differences. This is a global change, affecting places where the communities are working and where they aren't.

Sure that the core services needs to be independent of technology area. But did someone researched about local communities to discover where these changes would work and where these changes wouldn't work ?

Talking about Brazil, I can garantee to you :

- The core services in the hands of Microsoft will never work.

- Culminis as a volunteer organization will became the same as INETA, that after 6 years is still restarting their work.

- Volunteer organizations of this kind doesn't work here and INETA and all the problems in 6 years is a prove of this.

I'm talking about 6 years of community history that can't be told in a comment box. I'm talking about 6 years of community history that nobody researched to identify if this change would be good or not.

Result : Microsoft is taking out the support for Brazilian communities and giving nothing in exchange.

This change is needed for other countries ? Other places in the world ? So, do this change their, don't destroy the work we did so well these last years.

INETA and PASS need access to core services ? Sure ! But there is no need to take this out of Culminis and make a change that will result in the stop of the community support in a lot of places.

To change, move ahead, not backwards. I already talked with a lot of user group leaders in all my country : disappointed is the minimal English world in my vocabulary to explain how we see Microsoft right now.

No answer for that : Who will give financial support to my travel to Amazonas ?

Dennes Torres

ASP.NET MVP

devASPNet User Group Leader (Culminis and Ineta member)

devSQL User Group Leader (First Brazilian Culminis group and the only Brazilian PASS Chapter)

getWindows User Group Leader (Culminis member)

Hi, Bart !

Just one more point : When I enumerated financial support from Culminis, I wasn't talking only about my user groups. I'm talking about different user groups (6 or more in the small list I created) all around the country, separated by distances bigger than France or Germany country sizes.

Culminis was working in Brazil, user groups was being supported, until this bad news.

Dennes

Sorry to hear you might/will loose all of this, but let's wait till the more details are known. For EMEA I think this new model will work much better as the Europeans are not always keen on the "leadership" of the USA ;-)

I know Emilio and Vicki have done a tremendous job in Brazil and Latam America, these two Culminis people are for sure on your side.

Bart

I expect that with this feedback maybe we can keep a mixed mode : let EMEA and LATAM works each one in its way without do so many steps backward in community support.

All the user group leaders I talked with are very worried and sad about this change.

Dennes

I think the major point is not to turn Culminis into an INETA-like organization, as INETA is doing a good (is it?) job as a volunteer organization.

Heroes Commnunity Launch runned great in Brazil and Culminis role was essencial to put speakers in cities that generally don't have that.

I can tell you guys that when a couple of students (I work mostly with academic) is about to start a group and I say to them "That's it, you have Microsoft support" their eyes shine. I can't see the new aproach as an improvement to the support I've mentioned.

I Don´t understand this changes in the world. In the Brazil the Groups of the Culminis is very good !!

The Groups save

Vocês estão achando isso a jogada de marketing do ano? Porque assim, sentimos o Culminis bem mais próximo do que a Microsoft, não que não exista apoio da Microsoft... mas o Culminis tem se tornado bem mais disponível e cooperativo.

A comunidade está crescendo exponencialmente, seja no âmbito acadêmico ou profissional e isso vejo apenas tres pontos de forca: Software de Qualidade, Eventos Divulgadores e Apoio Academico.

Softwares de qualidade e inquestionavel a qualidade que a Microsoft tem exigido nas sua producao. Quanto aos eventos vejo casos de pessoas custearem do bolso para fazer eventos, e a Microsoft ganha muito com esses esforcos... e ate reconhece alguns. Quanto ao apoio academico, mesmo com um bom canal direto, as vezes faltam verbas. Como resolver o problema de iniciativas que dao certo?

Eu vejo o Culiminis como o "Grande Apoio", pois ele sempre esta por perto, sempre ajuda... e por isso sou Culminis Speaker, pois sei da seriedade das atividades desenvolvidas.

Acredito que depois de tudo feito apenas um tapinhas nas costas da comunidade, ou mesmo "cargos" com nomes bonitinhos nao resolvera os problemas que temos...

   Acho bastante louvavel essa atitude de trarsformar o culminis em uma instituição voluntária, no entanto esse modelo não funciona muito bem por aqui, e não me agrada a idéia de descentralizar o culminis, demitindo funcionários do mais alto gabarito que estão sendo pagos para dar suporte aos grupos e colocar pessoas "indicadas", que farão um trabalho "voluntário", até agora particulamente sempre que precisei de alguma informação fui prontamente atendido sem nenhuma burocracia, será vai continuar tão agil e pratica como está agora?!

  Sou a favor de continuar como está pois de outra forma favorecerá o que chamamos no Brasil de "Politicagem", onde nem sempre as pessoas que mereciam exercer tal cargo não estão neles e outras pessoas que não tem carater nem competencia estão simplemente por indicação.

   Em time que está ganhando não se meche!

   Sou Líder do Primeiro Grupo de Desenvovedores Culminis do Piauí, e recentemente fomos os ganhadores da pesquisa mensal culminis, o que nos proporcionara realizar um evento com um nivel mais elevado, a aquisição de verbas para a realização de eventos aqui no Piauí é extremamente complicado, e atraves do culminis essa dificuldade foi sanada, pois temos um canal direto com o Culminis, da forma que será feito, não só perderemos esse canal como não teremos mais garantia de que esses repasses serão feitos de forma tansparente como está sendo, independente da região do Brasil, TODOS os grupos tem direitos iguais.

James Jefferson de Sá Silva

Líder da Célula Acadêmica Floriano Cell.Net

Líder do Grupo de Desenvolvedores Culminis FlorianoCell (o primeiro do Piauí).

I Don´t understand this changes in the world.

In Brazil, Groups of the Culminis is very good !!

The Groups save my life in the job, conversations to solve problems and high quality events in portuguese language throughout the country(and not small!).

why the change in the Brazil ? Change in the rest of the world but not in the Brazil Please !!!

I´m an user of this comunity and I Work in a bigger company in Rio de Janeiro - Brazil, the Fortaleza technical support view the same lecture that me in Rio de Janeiro.

The distance of the cities is 2805 KM.

This initiative helped us directly in my company.

Please review the changes on Brazil, each area has its particularity.

Thanks.

Obs.: Sorry for my English

Petrus Gomes

MCP,MCSA e MCSE 2003.

MCTS Windows Server 2008.

Minha especialização é Telecom, mas participo/trabalho com o grupo para melhor desenvolvimento e associação de tecnologias TI e Telecom. Atualmente ando com dificuldade, sem tempo para contribuir com o meu grupo, mas acompanho o trabalho dos grupos desde antes do CULMINIS, noto atualmente que através do apoio direto do CULMINIS, os eventos estão sendo produzidos com um melhor nível/conteúdo, e está sendo permitido aos líderes uma melhor integração entre si, o que proporciona um excelente retorno para a MICROSOFT e ao CULMINIS. Além do que, o BRASIL deve ser melhor observado pela MICROSOFT, porque após este crescimento em investimento tecnológico e de acesso a Internet, a área governamental e alguns setores industriais e empresariais, estão fornecendo apoio ao software livre, para retorno imediato de baixo custo de risco financeiro, com sistemas operacionais. Sendo assim é muito bom fazer uma análise mais detalhada, antes de qualquer decisão.

Translating Thiago Freitas's comment:

Are you thinking this is the top Marketing move of the year? We feel that Culminis is closest than Microsoft. I'm not saying that we don't have Microsoft support... but Culminis have showed to be more available and cooperative.

The community is getting higher in a exponential way, in the academic environment and in the professional environment and that shows me 3 power points: quality software, marketing events and academic support.

Quality Softwares is unquestionable the quality that Microsoft have claimed by it's production. In relation to events, I see more cases where people have to pay from their own money to organize the events and Microsoft earns a lot with these efforts... and recognize some. In relation to academic support, although with a direct channel, sometimes there are no funds. How to solve the successful initiative's problems?

I see Culminis as a "Great Support", because they are close, always help... and for these reasons I'm a Culminis Speaker, because I know the seriousness of their activities.

I believe that after all the job done just a little slap in the community's back (similiar to "just to say thank you"), or even with more beautiful job titles will not solve problems we have...

Translating James Jefferson's comment:

I think it's very praiseworthy this attitude to turns Culminis in a volunteer institution, but this model doesn't work very well here and I don't like the idea to decentralize Culminis, firing highly skilful employees that have been payed to support our groups and put some "indicated" people that will do a "volunteer" job. Up to now, in particular, always I needed any information I was immediately answered with no burocracy. Will it continue so fast and practical like we have now?!

I'm in favor of it continue like it is, because if it will go in another way, it will in favor of what in Brazil we call "petty politics", where not always people who should deserve that job title are there and others, that have no character and even competency areb there just because they were indicated.

We don't change a winner's team.

I'm Leader of the first Culminis Developer's Group of Piaui and recently we were winners of a monthly Culminis survey, what will help us to organize an event with a higher level, getting funds to organize events in Piaui is very hard and with Culminis this pain was healed, because we have a direct channel with Culminis, the way it is, we will loose this channel and we will not have the guarantee that these deliveries will be so clearly like it's done today, independent of the Brazil's region, with ALL groups with same rights.

James Jefferson de Sá Silva

Leader of Floriano Cell.Net Academic Cell

Leader of FlorianoCell Developers UG

Translating Celso Ramos's comment:

My specialization is in Telecommunications, but I participate/work with a user group for my best develpment and technology association in IT/Telecom. Actually I have difficulties, no time for contributions for my user group, but I always observe the user group work, since before CULMINIS, my perception today is that with this direct support from CULMINIS, the events are organized with a better level/contect, and Leaders are having a better integration between them, what brings to an excellet feedback to MICROSOFT and CULMINIS. Besides, I think Brazil have to be better observed by MICROSOFT, because after this investment in technology and Internet access, the govern and some industrial and business sectors are providing support to Open Source, to a fast return of a low cost financial risk, with Operating Systems. So, I thnk you have to analyze it in details before any decison.

I'll write my personal comment in Portuguese, and after, in English.

Vou escrever meu comentário pessoal em Português, e depois, em Inglês.

Assim como Dave Sanders, sou Microsoft MVP na melhor categoria que existe, a de pessoas: Customer Experience.

Isso nos dá a possibilidade de estar em contato com Líderes de Grupos de Usuários de todo o mundo e portanto, me ajuda a entender algumas coisas.

Fatos:

* Pessoas da América Latina (não só no Brasil) trabalham muito mais com a emoção;

* No Brasil, a maior parte dos membros dos Grupos de Usuários são estudantes ou iniciantes;

* No Brasil, à medida que o profissional vai evoluindo, ele vai abandonando o Grupo. Isso deixa os Grupos de Usuários brasileiros com cara de coisa de estudante, dificultando o patrocinio;

* No Brasil, as pessoas que abandonam o grupo o respeitam, mas não tem mais tempo para eles.

Microsoft no Brasil:

* Ajuda muito a comunidade, mas claro, dá mais atenção a um menor grupo, devido aos resultados.

* Trabalha em parceria com a Culminis para tentar ajudar a todos, onde o trabalho da Culminis é feito de forma a equalizar o trabalho a todos.

* Se não estou engandado (as pesquisas de MVPs e com parceiros podem confirmar) a relação da comunidade com a subsidiária brasileira é a melhor do mundo em integração/interatividade.

Culminis no Brasil:

Finalmente chega uma organização internacional que vai apoiar os grupos maiores e menores de uma mesma forma, dando-lhes atenção, apoio financeiro, orientação. E creio que no resto da América Latina esse também seja o sentimento.

Tentei mostrar estes fatos acima para justificar a reação brasileira neste blog.

Infelizmente existem lugares onde o sentimento e os fatos são diferentes.

Quando eu fui convidado para ser o representante no Brasil, pergunta que fiz à Vicki foi: "Os diretores são multi-culturais? Eles conhecem os outros países? O que funciona em um pais talvez não funcione em outro" (lembra disso, Vicki?).

Isto que está acontecendo com a Culminis já era previsto e eu já havia comentando com algumas pessoas.

Infelizmente aconteceu um ano antes da minha previsão.

Amigos (líderes), calma.

Eu não sei o que vai acontecer, e acho que ninguém sabe 100% o que vai acontecer, mas tenho certeza que a intenção é boa.

Como sempre, contem comigo.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Like Dave Sanders, I'm MVP in the best category that exists, people: Customer Experience.

It gave us the chance to be in contact with User Group Leaders in all world, and it helps me to understand some things.

Facts:

Latin America people (not only in Brazil) work a lot more with feelings;

In Brazil, most part of User Group members are students or beginners;

In Brazil, in proportion to the progressing of the ITPro, he leaves the User Group. It causes the impression that a User Group ia a "student thing", making hard the mission of getting sponsors.

In Brazil, people who leaves the User Group still respects it, but have no time for it.

Microsoft in Brazil:

* Helps the community a lot, but of course, gives more attention to a small group, due to results.

* Works in partnership with Culminis to try to help all groups, where Culminis responsability is to equalize the effort to all groups.

* If I'm not wrong (MVPs and partners surveys can confirm) the relationship with community with the Brazilian subsidiary is the best of the world in integration/interaction.

Culminis in Brazil:

Finally an international organization comes to support big and small User Groups in a same way, giving them attention, financial support and guidance. And I believe that is the feeling for all LATAM.

I tried to show these facts to justify the Brazilian reaction in this blog.

Unfortunately there are places where the feeling and facts are different.

When I was invited to be the representative in Brazil, the question I did to Vicki was: "Does the directors have multi-culture mind? Do they know other countries? What works in a country, sometimes can't work in another" (remember that, Vicki?).

What is happening with Culminis was predicted and I already talked about it with some people.

Unfortunately it's happening one year before my prediction.

Friends (leaders), take it easy.

I don't know what will happen, and I think nobody knows 100% what will happen, but I'm sure that the intention was good.

As always, count me in!

I think that's important to notice one point : Here in comments there are user group leaders and user group members from Rio de Janeiro (RJ), Brasilia (DF), Fortaleza (CE) and Floriano (PI).

Four Brazilian states separated by big, very big distances. That's just the beggining.

Like Emilio said, the intention seems to be good, but the change is being done without a multi-culture mind.

I can garantee to you, with my experience seen how microsoft supports user groups here : this will not work in our country and will destroy the best support we have.

Dennes

É incrível... mas sempre que as coisas estão dando certo aparece alguém e diz o contrário. E pior ainda, consegue mudar tudo... E lá vamos nós ficar mendigando apoio mais uma vez. Isso pq temos uma série de eventos para organizar durante o próximo semestre, conforme a própria Microsoft diz.

Botando lenha na fogueira..!!! Será que existe o incômodo com a competência em organizar eventos que nós temos, inclusive aliados ao Culminis?

Luiz Pena

Hello, I am Marcel Luis Freitas, leader of the group of users request. First group of users of rondônia, north of Brazil.

I would stress that our region to be "less evolved technologically suffers discrimination and a great difficulty in getting support for events of technology companies and organizations.

The Culminis came to remedy this problem by creating a direct channel of communication and access to businesses, professionals and organization. Making a very import for connection to show the seriousness of work performed by the groups.

We know that empty bag not for standing that is, several other organizations that had only volunteers in their directions without any kind of income just weakening.

In my concern is also the same for several other colleagues for an unconscious way the resources end up being targeted to groups with greater influence, thus creating a fight and an even greater difficulty for groups that are starting and that has no influence dental organisations.

The culminis in its current model is on meeting the needs of groups without discrimination and favorecimentos.

I am sure that would be an irreparable loss if this happens and these changes are brought forward with the same opniao not favourable for leaders who promote the dissemination of technologies microsoft only by the pleasure of help ..

Marcel Luis Freitas

The head of the Group Request

MCP-MCDST - MSP

Olá a todos!

Há cerca de 2 anos fui convidado a participar do Road Show Culminis & MVP's, que estava acontecendo em diversas cidades do Brasil e aqui no Rio de Janeiro. Foi quando tive meu primeiro contato com pessoas da Comunidade, pois até o momento só participava de listas de discussão. Após assistir todas as palestras, inclusive do Emílio Mansur, que fez a abertura, fui até o próprio Emílio e conversando com ele, senti que era exatamente aquilo que ele estava fazendo que eu gostaria de fazer também.

Hoje, após dois anos de atividade na Comunidade sendo lider de um dos maiores grupos do país, com ligação com outros grupos no estado e fora do Rio de Janeiro, fui nomeado em 1º. de abril de 2008, como MVP na categoria Windows Desktop Experience, e credito esse título ao trabalho que tenho realizado com o apoio da Culminis.

Através da Culminis e mais precisamente do Mansur, posso afirmar que sem o apoio da Culminis e da iniciativa da mesma, a Comunidade de Profissionais e Usuários do Brasil não seria tão grande e tão proativa.

Para completar temos seguido o conselho dado pelo próprio Emílio Mansur quando preparamos algum evento: Parcerias com empresas, CPLS e outras instituições, e óbvio como apoio da Culminis.

Acredito que todo processo de mudança, seja complicado de compreender, mas acredito também que o trabalho desses grupos serão respeitados e mantidos.

Abraços a todos,

Alexandro Prado

MVP Windows Desktop Experience

Grupo MS-InfraRio & MSRio.NET

Grupo Code4all

Grupo WITS Brasil

Adding 2 more Brazilian states here, São Paulo and Rondonia, so now there are 6 Brazilian states complaining, 4 of the 5 Brazilian geographic regions.

If you stop in a corner and start to watch a trafic sign changing from stop to go and back to stop after some months or years doing this you will be able to identify different light intensity, moments when the signal will fail, the difference in time of each state on diferent hours in a day and so on. You will also be able to predict when that signal needs to change lights and if one change in the duration of each state would work or not.

In this case you may not understand all the trafic jam in the rest of the city, but in that corner you are the best person to be asked for about any change.

The history repeats itself. It happens because young people without experience in one area repeats the same mistakes already done by others. Do you need to put your hand in the fire to discover that it burns ?

When some kind of answer to our complains appear, I'm sure it would say "You didn't understant, the support will not stop, will be done directly by microsoft now".

The point is that all of us know that giving this task to Microsoft Brazil or Microsoft Corp. is one thing that will never work. We watched the traffic sign long enough to garantee that this change will not work in our corner.

This change is being done without any research about our corner. Another thing that you will say is "every group technology needs the same support, not only IT ones!" but you even noticed that in our corner every technology group : IT, Dev and SQL, are supported by Culminis.

Do you really need to put your hand in fire and loose an entire country to discover things that all of us already know ?

Maybe Brazil isn't a so important country for Microsoft...

Dennes Torres

ASP.NET MVP

Hi all ,

from the above comments it seems to me that Culminis only existed and supported to the Brazil or in other words Culminis was culminating the user groups in Brazil. This is not fair.

Let me give you my example. I'm struggling to run the user group here. Culminis only supported by word to me that's it. And the latest example is that couple of months I asked Culminis RD for the support and he showed me the hope by saying this and that......supprt with cash money... which never ever happend and finally I had to speak to the Microsoft and they supported me.

Where is Culminis ...? I just hear this word.. that's it. When I send them one email I get the reply in a week or so. No communication from the Culminis since they moved their operation from EMEA.

I heard Culminis happend only in the USA. I heard Culminis RD moving around the world round the clock but never found any support from Culminis. ,,,, why?

When we talk globally we should think globally. Maybe this change could impact the Brazil UG but it will help the other regions. So if the UG were happy with culminis then I'm sure they will be treated same with the Microsoft and Microsoft can help better UG around the world.

What I feel is that the poeople in the Culminis who were looking after the LATAM or Brazil were dedicated and sincere to their job unlike our region and thus we have many complains.

Core Services, em fim foi um ótimo desenvolvimento para quem trabalha com a microsoft, pricipalmente palestrando em outros estados, espero que melhore cada vez mais para assim a Microsoft ver que o Brasil tbm está muito contribuindo com o lado deles... e disponibilizar todo valor possivel para algo que a invista!

Hi, Adnan !

Sure your region needs better support !

But the better support can't be achieved taking out the support for other regions and that's what is happening.

Isn't Microsoft aware of difference in cultures of each region ? A glogal solution will not work.

Look at this paragraphs in my last comment :

"When some kind of answer to our complains appear, I'm sure it would say "You didn't understant, the support will not stop, will be done directly by microsoft now".

The point is that all of us know that giving this task to Microsoft Brazil or Microsoft Corp. is one thing that will never work. We watched the traffic sign long enough to garantee that this change will not work in our corner. "

You just did exactly this "You didn't understand, who will support you now will be Microsoft!". We understand, we understand very well to know that this means that we will have zero support, comparing with culminis support today.

So, if your region needs better support - and as you say, it needs - change the way things works in your region, not globaly.

Don't believe in the mistake that Microsoft will work the same and give the same support for all user groups in the world. Here we know that's not true.

Dennes

Nesses últimos dias percebi que a Microsoft esteve fazendo uma grande besteira, cortar o Patrocinio da Microsoft com a culminis, até porque antes de fazer algo devemos analisar bem antes que façamos algo errado, vejamos que a Microsoft não esteja olhando o lado do Brasil e deu demissão ao Emilio Mansur, um ótimo Rapaz!!!

Hi Dennes,

I think this feedback/discussion will give the message to the Microsoft that what really we want and what will work for us.

Yes I agree Microsoft understand the region very well ans they are already in business and very experienced about the market, same does happen to the UG.

I wish this global change will not affect the UG around the world like yours. Then intention here is to gelp the user group but how ... ? I think graham would better answer this.  

Hi, Adnan !

"Yes I agree Microsoft understand the region very well ans they are already in business and very experienced about the market,"

if with "market" you mean user groups and community, I don't agree with that.

Microsoft that you know is different than Microsoft that I know, because Microsoft is formed by people, different people in each region and even at Corp., different people for each region.

So, while you think "your" Microsoft will help a lot, I know, by experience, that "my" Microsoft will make a mess with the core services that until now was working for us.

This change can't be global. It will be a global disaster.

Dennes

Dennes,

thing seems totally oppsite at our our sites. In fact Microsoft was not so much helpful but it was better than Culminis, no doubt.

I think we should hear from more people in this discussion and get to know what do they think. So far we have 3 voices , myself you and Bart. I'd suggess to reach this discussion to as many people (leaders) as we can.

Afterall we all want us to grow.

Atualmente acho uma decisão errada. O Culminis faz um excelente trabalho, e foi com ajuda deles que várias palestras e cursos foram oferecidos, até em lugares que a Microsoft nunca chegou. Com isso, particulamente, acho que só quem tem a perder são os usuários, pois o trabalho prestado pelo Culminis deveria ser aplaudido em pé, e incentivar cada vez mais, e não simplesmente acabar.

Se isso realmente se concretizar, será um golpe duro na comunidade. Pensem bem antes de fazer.

Pablo Weyne

IISHelp User Group Leader

www.iishelp.com.br

It is complicated and sensitive situation such as for the HCL the kits that were on the responsibility Corp. still not arrived, those who already had the support of culminis reached well before the event ..

Is it not begun to occur constantly ..

I started to ask me

Marcel Freitas

Group Request

MCP-MCDST-MSP

Hi, Adna !

3 voices ? Not counting you, me and Bart we have 7 different user group leaders that gave there opinion here, and three user group members.

Dennes

Just to complete Marcel comment : That's something like 104 kit for the events that happend at March 15 (yes, 104 events in a day) and we have no information from Corp. about them.

Dennes

but mainly covering the 3 regions or countries this is what I mean.

Hi to all fellow user group leaders,

One main observation about this discussion is the passion we all have for the community which is the common denominator and according to me the key differentiator between a good user group leader and a bad one.

Having that said I am getting very curious to find out what was/is Culminis doing different in Brazil than in all other regions.

I have read they are giving money, but that is only the last year as before that this service was never an available(e.g. in EMEA tax-implications are causing more problems than advantages).

Secondly I hear they are supporting Developers, SQL and IT Pro, which means in principle playing in the area of INETA and PASS and that was not the plan according to Microsoft. I understand why it happens as the INETA and PASS didn't help you, but don't understand how it can be that different.

I don't want to judge your passion and feeling as I think it is very good you are happy with the support, indirectly from Microsoft, but I try to understand what makes your country that unique in the world.

Microsoft has employees whose job is to support community, what is the difference between a Culminis paid person and a Microsoft paid person? Is this the independency? If so, what makes this independency if the sole sponsor of Culminis is Microsoft? Is it the time this person can allocate to your country/region? We all know Microsoft employees are stretched very much with many different tasks, but think that counts for many jobs.

Are the Brazilian leaders able to tell us in bullet-points the 3-5 key deliverables you have received over the last years you have never received from Microsoft (INETA, PASS) directly? And are these deliverables coming from the whole Culminis organisation or are you receiving them mainly from Emilio and Vicki as people can make the difference here.

Hope to learn a lot from this discussion.

Bart Martens

In this case, only Microsoft can make this message arrives for the entire globe.

Bart talks about Europe, if I undertand. You about Asia, right ?

So, two regions.

Me and other 7 leaders talk about Brazil. Brazil for Culminis is an isolated region, not equal latam.

So we haven't opinion from Latam, NORAM, and Africa. But, I was in Africa a few weeks ago, in cape verde. They have no support from neither, Culminis or Microsoft. But Culmins paid my travel to cape verde and (I think) Culminis Brazil was ready to support them if authorized to do that, but with all this change on going, this doesn't happend.

Culminis Surveys give each month for each region a value of us$ 250,00 . In January, April and May there was APAC winners. In the other months this means that APAC user groups didn't filled the survey, none APAC user groups have at least 10 members filling the survey.

All the months of this year had Brazil, NORAM, LATAM and EMEA winners of the survey. (maybe march there isn't anyone from NORAM, I'm not sure).

I already earned this money sometimes and I can tell you : this money helped a lot with user group events.

Does the EMEA and APAC user groups that earned the same support have the same opinion as you ?

The fact is that we never received money from Microsoft, neither before Culminis or during Culminis and I'm saying that I'm in this corner for enough time to garantee that this support will stop.

Dennes

Hi, Bart !

First of all, at March 15 we did 224 events in the same day.

224 events around the country !

The initial idea was 20 or 30, but I get the idea bigger, a lot bigger, and Culminis helped a lot with this. Sure Ineta and Microsoft worked and helped also, but I in doubt if we could do this without Culminis.

"I have read they are giving money, but that is only the last year as before that this service was never an available(e.g. in EMEA tax-implications are causing more problems than advantages). "

Here we haven't this problem, not yet. Each user group leader solve this problem in his way. One year is much time. I travelled to cape verde with Culminis money, I speaked in Fortaleza (more than 2 thousand KM from my house) with Culminis money, a lot of the events of March 15 was supported by Culminis money and I will travel this year again with Culminis money. Some of the user group leaders that commented here also had this benefit.

We never had this before. That's not an easy thing here. That's important and will be changed by this decision.

"Secondly I hear they are supporting Developers, SQL and IT Pro, which means in principle playing in the area of INETA and PASS and that was not the plan according to Microsoft. I understand why it happens as the INETA and PASS didn't help you, but don't understand how it can be that different."

Our country is big, too big. So user group leaders motivate other user group leaders to create regional groups. With Culminis, the support is quickly for any group and that's a very good thing.

Microsoft has employees whose job is to support community, what is the difference between a Culminis paid person and a Microsoft paid person?

With this question you try to open a box that can't be opened. I can garantee to you that I'm in the corner for enough time to know that the difference is too big.

Let's say a simple example : In all these years with the community, more than one time I answered my phone and someone told me something like this : "Hi, I'm new here, at Microsoft and now I'm the responsable by communities relation. Can you tell me who you are and how we can work together ?" . Understand my point ? Sundely all the memory about your contribution to communities just desapears and all the politics about how the support is done just change.

I can't understand microsoft international employees politics, I just can ensure to you that a long time support planning (is this right in English language?) doesn't work with today international employees politics that microsoft uses.

I can't tell anything more in a comment box, and I'm sure I already told too much.

About MS Corp. Support, just need to say that MS Corp. never understood the structure of Heroes Community Launch we did (224 events in the same day!) and that's one point more to Culminis.

"Is this the independency?"

Culminis employees fight against MS employees to turn our ideas into reallity and that's great.

MS employees always have too much things in mind.

"Are the Brazilian leaders able to tell us in bullet-points the 3-5 key deliverables you have received over the last years you have never received from Microsoft (INETA, PASS) directly? And are these deliverables coming from the whole Culminis organisation or are you receiving them mainly from Emilio and Vicki as people can make the difference here."

1) Constant comunication with user group members and money prizes

2) money sponsorship

3) Sharepoint portal

4) User group interaction analysis (TheVoice, Surveys, 5 levels of user groups)

5) Interesting motivation to create new things (IT Hero program)

These five are global resources.

Dennes

Translating Luiz Pena's comment:

That's incredible... but always when things seens to be going well, someone comes and says the opposite. Even worse, can change everything... And here we go be begging support one more time. That's because we have a list of events to organize during next semester, according to Microsoft.

Adding fuel to the flames..!!! Is there any discomfort with the competency in organize events that we have, including from Culminis partners?

Luiz Pena

Hi, I´m Claudio Terra, I participate in the community for several years, now I contribute directly with events and mediations for getwindows user group.

For several years we tried to put the community together, to motivate the It professional to participate, to share all the experiences and knowledge.

Microsoft tried to connect with the community with several programs, sometimes effected like academic cells, but with the grow of the groups the support from Microsoft was very complicated and here we lost several opportunities to

When Culminis came to brazil I begging to have hope that we will be able to get the community together, and in few months, lots of groups was connected to culminis, we had great group of IT professionals like Emilio Mansur, Dennes Torres and others.

In my group we bagging to learn from culminis, now we have regular meetings every month open to the community and participate in all the lunch events and programs that Microsoft ask for our help.

The most important example to the work that we can achieve with the culminis support was the Heroes Community Launch in March 15, which we could launch the new servers in 59 cities, with more than 100 events in the same day. We could reach places that normally Microsoft technology couldn´t get.

So I’m frustrated as all the professionals, group leaders and friends that are trying to spread knowledge.

Claudio Terra

getWindows User Group Member (Culminis member)

MCP – MCDST

Microsoft has a deep commitment to growing and nurturing communities organized around supporting users

Translating Alexandro Prado's comment

Hello all!

About 2 years ago I was invited to in a Culminis & MVPs Roadshow that were happening in some cities, including Rio de Janeiro. It was when I had my first contact with community people, because up to that moment I was only participating of dicussions lists. After attending all presentations, including Emilio Mansur's presentation, that was the event's opening, I looked him and talking with Emilio I felt that was exactly what I wanted to do too.

Now, after two years with Community activity, being a Leader of one of the greatest Groups in our country, with connections with others groups in the state and outside Rio de Janeiro, I was nominated a Microsoft MVP in Windows Desktop Experience category and I credit this title to the work I have done with Culminis support.

Through Culminis, and being more precise, through Mansur, I can affirm that without Culminis support and of it's initiative, the Professional and Users Community in Brazil will not be so great and proactive.

To complete, we have followed the pieces of advice given by Emilio Mansur when we have to organize any event: partnership with companies, CPLSs and other institutions, and obvious, Culminis support.

I believe that all changing process is complicated to understand, but I also believe that the work of the User Groups will be respected and maintained.

Hugs for all,

Alexandro Prado

MVP Windows Desktop Experience

MS-InfraRio & MSRio.NET User Group

Code4all User Group

WITS Brasil User Group

Boa noite

Sou líder do Grupo de usuários GetWindows e Culminis Speaker. Tanto o grupo,quanto eu fomos um dos primeiros membros do Culminis aqui no Brasil(Terceiro no Brasil e segundo no Rio de Janeiro).Pelo tempo e experiencias já vistas, tenho quase certeza que essa nova fórmula que estão querendo implantar não será bem sucedida aqui no Brasil. Durante anos os grupos de TI não tiveram apoio algum, a comunidade era dispersada e com a vinda do Culminis o cenário mudou, trazendo uma unidade e organização. Não há nada o que se reclamar da atual estrutura, pelo contrário, só elogios.A agilidade e prestatividade é uma das marcas da atual gestão. Um dos exemplos são os benefícios que são oferecidos pelo Culminis que são muito bem geridos e distribuido aos grupos, algo que creio não será tão eficiente se mudar de mãos. Conforme já comentado, a realidade brasileira é diferente de outros países e isso tem de ser levado em conta antes de ser promovida qualquer mudança. Colocar pessoas indicadas,em algums casos, pode acabar gerando regalias e privilégios,coisa que atualmente não há. Sugiro, já que o foco é valorizar o que os profissionais e grupos de TI realmente pensam, que seja feita uma votação com os líderes de grupo no Brasil para que sejam ouvidos e decidam qual o melhor formato, se o atual ou o novo. Essa é a melhor forma de decidir algo tão importante.

Marcio Peixoto

MCP,MCSA,MCSE,MCITP,MCTS

It is fascinating that there is great disparity in experiences, and even in the USA.  One group will say they have great support, the next group will say that they only get boxes of outdated software as giveaways.  

Most of what I've seen as byproducts of Culminis can be traced to direct funds/actions by Microsoft, so while some would give the kudos for Culminis for making the effort, it's really Microsoft with the strings and purse strings that is carrying the day in my interactions.

Is it perhaps that there is a team in Brazil making the difference?

One thing is for sure, there isn't consistency.

Translating Pablo Weyne's comment:

Nowadays I think it's a wrong decision. Culminis does a great job, and was with their help that many presentations and courses were offered, even in places where Microsoft never were before. So, particularly, I think the one's who will really loose will be the users, cause the work provided by Culminis should be applauded, and motivated even more, not simply come to an end.

If it really happens, it will be a hard stroke in the community. Think about it before do it.

Pablo Weyne

IISHelp User Group Leader

www.iishelp.com.br

Traduzindo o comentário de Graham Watson:

Uau! Muitíssimo obrigado a *TODOS* pelos comentários e pela óbvia paixão que vocês tem pela comunidade.

Se puder vou resumir o que entendi do que foi dito até aqui - assim vocês poderão me corrigir! - A Culminis tem trabalhado muito bem em alguns paises, o Brasil em particular. Em outros paises o impacto foi bem menor. O que queremos fazer com estas mudanças é tentar fornecer ao resto do mundo o mesmo nível de suporte que o Brasil tem recebido sem reduzir o suporte ao Brasil. Como outros disseram, seria ótimo receber um resumo do que funcionou no Brasil a partir do ponto de vista dos líderes - Eu criei um post em separado em http://blogs.technet.com/grahamtwatson/archive/2008/06/22/why-is-culminis-so-successful-in-brazil.aspx assim podemos ter uma discussão em separado sobre isso.

Translating Marcio Peixoto's comment:

Good evening

I'm Leader of GetWindows User Group and a Culminis Speaker. As the User Group as myself were among the first Culminis member here in Brazil (third in Brazil and second in Rio de Janeiro). By the time and experience we saw, I'm sure that this new formula that you want to implement will not work here in Brazil. For years the IT User Groups had no support, community was diffused and with Culminis arrival, the scenery changed, bringing a unity and organization. There is nothing to complain about the actual structure, on the contrary, only praises. The quickness and serviceable are the signs of the actual administration. One of the examples are the benefits that are offered by Culminis that are very well managed and distributed for the Groups, somewhat that I believe that will not be so efficient if it change of hands. Accordingly to an old comment, the reality in Brazil is different from another countries and it have to take into account before any change. To place indicated people, in some cases, can generate some privilege and prerogative, and that doesn't exist today. I suggest, since the focus is to add value to what IT Pros and User Groups really think, a survey with Brazilian UG Leaders to hear what they have to say about it and make the decision for the best format, if the current one or the new one. This is the best way to decide something so important.

Marcio Peixoto

MCP,MCSA,MCSE,MCITP,MCTS

Hi, Susan !

"Is it perhaps that there is a team in Brazil making the difference?"

Is almost the oposite.

Sure we have a great team in Microsoft Brazil, always helping comunity (not like Culminis), but because MS way to work, this team is instable, always changing and when change happens, rules changes.

Culminis support isn't tied with Microsoft support. Culminis survey is a global resource (each month this year a diferent NORAM group earned the survey too) and I can ask money to Culminis at any time. Each quarter I have a money limit to do events, just needing to give feedback about the events.

Dennes

I will explain my relationship with the culminis. I am leading a group acting in the north regîão to parents. Region is that is developing and that there is not big business of technology and the residents have no access to technology innovations.

Our group of users was born with the goal of filling that space, promoting events and speak to bring the population to technological innovations.

In 4 years existentei ja palestramos or organize events in excess of 15 thousand people we work in all cities.

I had that on several occasions by taking money from the pocket unable to companies or organisations to help the costs.

Once I join the culminis everything was easier, access organizations, professional and financial support has occurred quietly.

I think the model's work culminis in brazil should rather be copied and implemented in other regions of the world with the same speed, professionalism and seriousness.

During the HCL were 224 events, this is not just people. It is a great deal and that thanks to the support of culminis and emilio was possible ..

I have to say wonders and could write a book on the great respect and commitment between the culminis and users ..

hugs

Marcel Freitas

Leader of Group

MCP - MCDST - MSP

Hi, Graham !

"Graham here again - The funding Culminis provided was by managing and distributing funds Microsoft supplied to them (my budget, actually!). The aim was always for these funds to available without favor anywhere in the world, and this will NOT change as we go forward. The only difference as far as funding is concerned is that at some point in the next few months you will apply to Microsoft rather than to Culminis, which we hope will make it easier for those not in Brazil."

Did you already thinked about a solution for Brazil ?

The problem is that if MS Corp can't understand some quickly changes in a event organization, like happend at March 15, how will Microsoft be able to do a good evaluation about funding requests ? I have a lot of reasons to don't believe that's possible.

More important points :

How the 5 levels of user groups will work ?

Will the Culminis survey and the monthly us$ 250,00 for region continue to happen ?

The Culminis survey that is running right now is still valid ?

From where will we get sharepoint services to our websites ?

I'm travelling to Amazonas at 12 of next month, will I have the same support than before ?

Is my group at the same level it was before or isn't it valid any more ?

How will you keep Culminis - a voluntare organization with public elections - far from the politics that destroyed INETA during last 6 years in Brazil ?

=======================

The fact is that if you keep this change, know the Culminis support will be tied with Microsoft support. Until know Culminis could do the better decision about how to support the groups, know who will decide is Microsoft, same Microsoft that didn't understood March 15.

Dennes

I think very important to Culminis this new vision. In Brazil, I’d like congratulation Emilio Mansur for the fantastic work in Microsoft Groups. I have a suggestion for this new model.

So… In all this States must be a Culminis Director or Culminis Member. In Brazil are 27 States. So, these members was responsible for manager all the groups in our States. But, this 27 member are manager for a Lead (or Leaders).

These members received some benefices for ours works.

In Brazil, I vote on Emilio Mansur. He’s a true Lead.

Tradução do comentário de Graham Watson:

Graham aqui de novo - Os fundos fornecidos pela Culminis eram fundos gerenciados e distribuídos pela Microsoft  (meu orçamento, na verdade!). O objetivo sempre foi de que estes fundos estariam disponíveis sem o favorecimento pra qualquer parte do mundo e isso não irá mudar enquanto continuarmos adiante. A única diferença tanto para o fornecimento de fundos quanto para outras preocupações é o de que, nos próximos meses, vocês irão requerer à Microsoft ao invés de ao invés da Culminis, o que esperamos tornar mais fácil para aqueles que não estejam no Brasil.

Como eu disse, a intençao é unificar o apoio no resto do mundo para o mesmo nível que está sendo feito no Brasil, e por favor, sintam-se à vontade para entrar em contato direto comigo caso isso não aconteça (ou pelo menos não estejamos de alguma forma na direção correta)

Como usted puede saber, yo soy gerente de marketing en Microsoft y me centro en comunidades técnicas y cómo Microsoft puede apoyarlas mejor. Deseo darles a todos un pre-aviso sobre algunos cambios importantes que estamos realizando conjuntamente con Culminis que se diseñaron para traer mejoras en todos niveles en cómo Microsoft apoya a los grupos de usuarios y cómo los grupos de usuarios y sus miembros pueden interactuar con Microsoft.

Primero, déjeme decirles: Microsoft trata a los grupos de usuarios como una comunidad clave en el desarrollo y la entrega de nuestro software de negocios y herramientas de desarrollo. No hay comunidad más importante. Interactuamos con literalmente millones de miembros de grupos de usuarios alrededor del mundo regularmente. Esto nos da una visión sumamente valiosa en lo que los profesionales de TI y los desarrolladores realmente desean y realmente piensan. ¡Eso, en cambio, nos  ayuda a darles el mejor software y recursos, para no mencionar los grandes momentos en los eventos como TechEd!

Siempre estamos pensando en cómo mejorar las maneras en que trabajamos con las comunidades alrededor del mundo. En esa luz, estamos contentos por algunos cambios que estamos realizando con Culminis que creo que ayudarán a la comunidad enormemente. Me encantaría escuchar lo que ustedes piensan, por lo tanto por favor dejen sus comentarios …

Culminis ha sido un campeón incansable de la comunidad de Profesionales en TI por varios años ya. INETA ha hecho lo mismo por los desarrolladores pero con una organización netamente voluntaria. Pensamos que cada modelo tiene sus ventajas, y junto con el equipo de la gerencia de Culminis hemos decidido realizar los siguientes cambios específicos: -

1.Culminis se convertirá en una organización basada en voluntarios, muy similar a INETA, con consejos regionales.  

•La asignación del consejo inicial será seleccionado por Microsoft y la compañía de Culminis.

•El consejo inicial estará en efecto por solamente un año, y después será sustituido por miembros elegidos por la comunidad.

2. Microsoft proporcionará directamente los siguientes “servicios básicos,” muchos de los cuales están siendo entregados ahora por Culminis.

• Soporte Para Eventos

• Desarrollo Comunitario

• Entrega de Contenido

• Reconocimiento y Reportaje sobre Grupos de Usuarios

• Soporte Para Boletines de Noticias

3. Los servicios básicos estarán disponibles para la nueva comunidad voluntaria de Culminis e INETA así como otras asociaciones tales como PASS. Pensamos que esto es particularmente ventajoso para la comunidad en su totalidad, pues se asegura de que la ayuda de Microsoft esté disponible para todos los grupos y no solamente los grupos de Profesionales de TI.  

Éstos son algunos cambios bastante significativos, y no van a suceder de la noche a la mañana - esperamos que tome un par de meses o más antes de que la nueva estructura esté completamente en lugar. ¡Revise por favor este blog para las actualizaciones de como progresan las cosas!  

Y que no se le olvide que  realmente deseo su retroalimentación sobre esto - por favor siéntase libre de agregar sus comentarios a este blog o a través de email directamente en graham.watson@microsoft.com

The above is a translation of the original blog post, for anybody who wishes to read it in spanish- sorry for not including that intro :)

Though we have a few representatives here and there who have been good, Microsoft in general has not been as directly accessible on a regular basis to our association. This is perhaps because we are in the West Sound versus the Seattle/Bellevue/Redmond corridor. Culminis, on the other hand, has offered names and email addresses with whom we've been able to conduct a steady stream of responsive interactivity.

In the end, Culminis must make the best choice for its organisation, and we'll remain positive and hope for the best. I just believe it will result in WST(P)A being once again relegated to relatively unimportant status under the Microsoft umbrella, particularly if it is an all-volunteer force at the helm. I hope I'm wrong.

Culiminis is te best, i am disapointed with the changed. I think the best to support communities is Culminis.

Thank you.

I am a UG Leader in Vancouver, Canada and a Customer Experience MVP. I have read all of the posts with great interest, well at least the English ones :). My Portuguese isn't too hot! Emilio gave a very good presentation at the MVP Summit about the happenings in Brazil and I would like to heartily congratulate everbody who was involved in that. As Bart said, it demonstrates the most important component which is "passion". I would like to make a few comments/observations:

1. Clearly Culminis arrived in Brazil when its services could be most benefitial and appreciated and cudos to Culminis and the community for making it work.

2. Culminis had struggled in a number of places and undertsndibly a success somewhere was very important to them as an organization both for their own moral and in being able to demonstrate some results. Brazil was clearly a good opportunity.

3. The Brazilian community seems to be underestimating themselves and what they can achieve from within their own ranks. Culminis may have assisted but the community really made it all happen.

4. Perhaps the community in Brazil is not yet as "mature" as in some other places but I am quite sure that they have come a long way in recent times. I can totally understand their current feelings but I also ask them to try and understand the feelings of others who have had a completely opposite experience.

5. A lot has been made about the geographic challenges in Brazil. Canada is 4.5 time zones wide and yet we have managed to achieve a unity which at times I find quite remarkable. I have to admit that we get outstanding support from Microsoft Canada who in my case happen to be 2500km away. From my standpoint the local office "doesn't exist" as any kind of benefit. Clearly there are many things which can make for regional differences. For example, people in the US often make the mistake of thinking that Canada is the "same". It may have some similarities but it is most definitely different!

6. I would say that Canada is a pretty "mature"  community and there is a high level of agreement amongst its leaders wrt interaction with Culminis and its core services. In Canada we disagree with any scheme which distinguishes between UG Leaders or groups, ie. the L5 scheme. To us "we are a group of mutually supporting equals" regardless of group size, origin or age. As such we have found it difficult to work with Culminis and use their funding support. We need the money just like everybody else but it must be under the correct circumstances. I fully recognize some of our feelings may be "cultural" which adds to the arguement about different regions. I hasten to add that it has never been a question of whether something like Culminis is a good idea or not.

7. I believe that Microsoft do recognize that "one size doesn't necessarily fit all". However, the one constant here is the community and the passion of its leaders. It is now up to us to "educate" Microsoft how regionalization can be accomodated around a common set of core beliefs and objectives. They are listening. If they weren't the recent events would not have happened. Unfortunately, all significant change is difficult and will "impact" some more than others. Microsoft is "one" company and yet "many", something which I am sure they struggle with themselves.

8. Uncertainty is always the enemy of order and progress and so I do sympathize with our "friends" in Brazil. However, we must achieve a higher degree of "global" consistency and success if organizations like INETA, Culminis and PASS are to continue to exist with Microsoft support, which is quite considerable, regardless of how it is or by whom it is delivered. Microsoft are in business to make a profit! As a community leader I am very pleased that they see the value and the importance of the community but Microsft is not a charity and I am sure that community support is under constant scrutiny in Redmond to demonstrate a "return on investment". Recent changes are bound to add to that scrutiny, at least in the near term.

9. Microsoft have effectively handed "us" the baton and said "tell us what you need from us and how should we deliver it so that everyone can benefit?". Let us not underestimate how bold that is. It is now up to us to support them in supporting us. I did note some comments about the importance of the "right volunteer people". Clearly that is very important but let's remember there are some very capable and passionate people in the community and in the end that's what makes it "special". I am sure that is no more true than in Brazil.

Cheers

Graham Jones

Good day. Watson:

I am leader of a community of IT in Peru and to put exactamento in the department of Ayacucho, the community has TechNetAyacucho by name, I start as leader and as 4 years ago, and doing a self-examination I realized that for the organization of events we do to date nearly 90% that we were our own pockets, personally remember that the money they earned in my work, but some more tips attached to the events to try to make my city, for my community .. . were years very difficult ... pending since last year we had the reception of Culminis, an entity in which to begin with tips taught us very important that gave it a special value and direction to the community (Culminis appeared when he was a close community) and we started from Again, I had the pleasure to meet Daniel of Haza (auqneu and lo conocia before), but a more communicative side, which was taken by a lot of support for organizing various events, it was more party intermediary to bring our community several exhibitors in Microsoft technologies.

So that earlier this year 2008, Culminis supported us more than what we expected ... Culminis support us with money to make our events ... realize that this meant that we no longer will put in our pockets ... ?

It was a great start work even William Taylor, was a major pillar for the work of communities in nustra country would be genuinely committed to Microsoft; Ayacucho is a department of Peru which are not performing events, but with the support of William Taylor as Evangelista IT, organization change, it had much more support and was felt THAT IF MICROSOFT support and tapeworm into account ALS Community together to Culminis and continued support by the messenger with Daniel that Haza was always us when we need it, Nor forget Miss. Vicky Tomich, who did a great job for the good of communities and that is why we see that the prior fiscal year in Peru were much events and communities had greater rapprochement with Microsoft and users at once, thanks to Culminis and William Taylor was to study and now I'm incredibly CCM and our community with the support of Culminis made to 2 events per month !!!... it is here where you see reflected the support and importance it has had Culminis.

But today when receiving an email in which indicates that "Culminis will be changing over the next few months toward an organization of volunteers ...", it makes me think that this meant back to what we have been getting, support volunteer means you will not estaran communities to be 100%, will be only when they have time .... and that means that communities will be away from Microsoft, I think we always should be a nexus between Microsoft and communities and I think Culminis is an entity that if they are doing fully, which Culminis adopt a voluntary system, means that communities are unprotected, without the support of Microsoft and that is the reality of each region is totally different, could not compare the reality Latam technology with the U.S. or Europe, where changes could probably operate .... but in Latam is totally different .... imagine that as I was 3 years putting my pocket to make and events that appeared Culminis and began supporting economically, with staff who are worried about walking in the communities, with support by mail or IM continuously and suddenly get there by the idea that all this will change and opt for a policy of volunteerism in Culminis ... simply because I disagree ... and I do not think that is the only leader of a community in Peru and LatAm opine that the same thing ... because I believe that for most communities in LatAm Culminis has become the best bridge between communities and support Microsoft ... and therefore ask you to discuss the issue well, not back in support being given to communities, unlike taken better measures to ensure that communities are much more competent and therefore it benefits Microsoft and millions of professionals learn new technological advantages offered by Microsoft, but thanks to the communities that exist globally, Culminis supported us a lot to achieve these objectives and we want to continue to do so personal that it was taking that continuous communication ... I hope to take into account our viewpoint for the sake of all communities.

Greetings ...

Jose Antonio Diaz Velarde

Community Leader TechNetAyacucho

Microsoft Certified Professional

******************************************************

Buen dia Sr. Watson:

Soy Lider de una comunidad de IT en Perú y para decirlo exactamento en el departamento de Ayacucho, la comunidad tiene por nombre TechNetAyacucho, me inicie como Lider ya hace como 4 años, y haciendo un autoexámen me  he dado cuenta que para la organización de los eventos que realizamos hasta las fecha casi un 90% fueron por que pusimos de nuestros propios bolsillos, personalmente recuerdo que el dinero que ganaba en mi trabajo, mas algunas propinas mas las asignaba para tratar de realizar eventos para mi ciudad, para mi comunidad...fueron años muy dificiles... hasta que desde el año pasado tuvimos la acogida de Culminis, entidad en la cual para empezar nos enseñaron con tips muy importantes que le dieron un valor especial y rumbo a la comunidad (Culminis aparecio cuando estaba por cerrar la comunidad), asi que empezamos de nuevo, tuve el gusto de conocer a Daniel de la Haza (auqneu ya lo conocia antes), pero de un lado mas comunicativo, en el cual mediante el se tuvo mucho apoyo para organizar varios eventos, es mas fue parte intermediario para poder traer a nuestra comunidad a varios expositores en tecnologías Microsoft.

Es asi que a inicios de este año 2008, Culminis nos apoyó más de lo que esperabamos... Culminis nos apoyo con dinero para poder realizar nuestros eventos... se dan cuenta que esto significaba que nosotros ya no pondriamos de nuestros bolsillos... ?¿?

Se inicio una gran labor incluso Guillermo Taylor, fue un gran pilar para que el trabajo de comunidades en nustra país se viera realmente comprometido con Microsoft; Ayacucho es un departamento del Peruen el cual no se realizaban eventos, pero con el apoyo de Guillermo Taylor como Evangelista IT, la organización cambio, se tenia mucho más apoyo y se HIZO SENTIR QUE MICROSOFT SI APOYABA Y TENIA EN CUENTA A ALS COMUNIDADES, junto a Culminis y el apoyo continuo por messenger con Daniel de la Haza que siempre estuvo cuando nosotros lo necesitamos, tampoco olvidarme de la Srta. Vicky Tomich, que hicieron un trabajo estupendo para el bien de las comunidades y es por ello que veran que el año fiscal anterior en Perú se hicieron mayor cantidad de eventos y las comunidades tuvieron mayor acercamiento con los usuarios y Microsoft a la vez, gracias a Culminis y Guillermo Taylor fue que estudie y ahora soy MCP e increiblemente nuestra comunidad con el apoyo de Culminis a realizado 2 eventos por mes !!!... es ahi donde se ve reflejado el apoyo y la importancia que Culminis ha tenido.

Sin embargo al recibir hoy un correo en el que indica que "Culminis estará cambiando en el transcurso de los siguientes meses hacia una organización de voluntarios...", pues me hace pensar que esto significara retroceder a lo que hemo estado consiguiendo, el apoyo de voluntarios significa que no estaran al pendiente de las comunidades al 100%, sera solo cuando tengan tiempo....y eso significa que las comunidades estaran alejadas de Microsoft, creo que siempre deberia haber un nexo entre Microsoft y las comunidades y creo que Culminis es una entidad que si lo esta haciendo cabalmente, el que Culminis adopte un sistema de voluntariado, hace que las comunidades se vean desprotegidas, sin el apoyo de Microsoft y es que la realidad de cada region es totalmente distinta, no podria comparar la realidad tecnologia de Latam con EE UU o Europa, en las cuales los cambios probablemente podrian funcionar.... pero en Latam es totalmente distinto....imaginense que estuve como 3 años poniendo de mi bolsillo para poder realizar eventos y que aparecio Culminis y empezo a apoyarnos económicamente, con personal que se preocupaba por el andar de la comunidades, con un soporte por correo o messenger continuamente y de repente por ahi LLEGA la idea de que todo esto cambiara y se optara por una politica de voluntariado en Culminis... pues simplemente NO ESTOY DE ACUERDO... y no creo que sea el unico Lider de una comunidad en Perú y en latam que opine lo mismo... pues creo que para la mayoría de comunidades en latam CULMINIS ha pasado a ser el mejor nexo de apoyo entre comunidades y Microsoft... por lo cual pido que analicen bien el tema, no retrocedamos en el apoyo que se esta dando a las comunidades, al contrario que se adopten mejores medidas para que las comunidades sean mucho mas competentes y por ende esto beneficie a Microsoft y a millones de profesionales que aprenden nuevas bondades tecnológicas que ofrece Microsoft, pero GRACIAS A LAS COMUNIDADES QUE EXISTEN a nivel mundial, Culminis nos apoyado mucho para lograr estos objetivos y queremos que continue haciendolo con los personales que se tenía, teniendo esa comunicación contínua... espero tomen en cuenta nuestro punto de vista en bien de todas las comunidades.

Saludos...

José Antonio Velarde Díaz

Community Leader TechNetAyacucho

Microsoft Certified Professional

Escrevo em Português mais adiante, vai lendo...

Hello!

Now that Culminis has started a survey asking leaders about this transformation, I feel better to share some words with you.

PASSION AND MATURITY

====================

Passion is a thing that really exists in all the comments here.

In Brazil there is a lot of passion, but we really need more experience and more maturity. To solve that, only time :)

TO CALM DOWN BRAZILIAN LEADERS

==============================

My friends, as Graham said, services will continue.

Not exactly in the same way, but services will be available after this change.

I know that all changes causes some reaction, but let's give them a try.

Let's think globally. In Brazil is working, in some places os LATAM are working too.

But I heard a lot during my last two MVP Summits about unsatisfied Leaders.

RECIPE OF SUCCESS?

==================

When I was invited to be Culminis representative, I was in a comfortable situation because I had founded some User Groups and I have some experience with people and with Microsoft.

I know what is the pain of a new leader and a experienced leader in Brazil. Their needs and difficulties.

So when Culminis gave me the lemons...

To make a good job, one of the things that was in my mind was "EVERYTHING IS INTEREST". And please, consider it a good thing.

Who is my main sponsor? Microsoft.

- Microsoft, what do you want?

- Numbers! I need people joining the User Grups. I need events. I need people in events.

- And event about what?

- Bla, bla, bla...

WHo are my clients? User Group Leaders.

- Leader, what do you want?

- I don't know how to... (get a sponsor - organize an event - grow my UG).

- Please, do this and that. What about an event of bla, bla, bla?

- Great! I need X and Y.

- Microsoft? I have X. Can you give me Y? SO I can give you your numbers, events and people.

And, together with that, I tried to be available. Even with my delays in Live Messenger and e-mails :}

==*== PT-BR ==*==

Alô!

Agora que a Culminis começou uma pesquisa perguntando aos seus líderes sobre esta mudança, me sinto melhor para compartilha algumas palavras com vocês.

PAIXÃO E MATURIDADE

===================

Paixão é uma coisa que realmente existe em todos os comentários aqui.

No Brasil há muita paixão, mas realmente precisamos de mais experiência e maturidade. Para resolver isso, somente o tempo :)

PARA ACALMAR LÍDERES BRASILEIROS

================================

Meus amigos, como Graham disse, os serviços continuarão.

Não exatamente da mesma forma, mas os serviços estarão disponíveis após esta mudança.

Eu sei que todas as mudanças causam alguma reação, mas vamos dar-lhes uma chance.

Vamos pensar globalmente. No Brasil está funcionando, em alguns locais da América Latina está funcionando também.

Mas eu ouvi muito durante os dois últimos MVP Summits sobre Líderes insatisfeitos.

RECEITA DE SUCESSO?

===================

Quando fui convidado para ser um representante Culminis, eu estava em uma situação confortável porque já tinha fundado alguns Grupos de Usuários e eu já tinha alguma experiência com pessoas e com Microsoft.

Conheço qual a dor de um novo líder e de um líder experiente no Brasil. Suas necessidades e dificuldades.

Então quando a Culminis me deu limões...

Para fazer um bom trabalho, uma das coisas que estava em minha mente era "TUDO É INTERESSE". E por favor, considerem isso uma coisa boa.

Quem é meu principal patrocinador? Microsoft.

- Microsoft, o que você quer?

- Números! Preciso de pessoas participando de Grupos de Usuários. Preciso de eventos. Preciso de pessoas em eventos.

- E eventos sobre o quê?

- Bla, bla, bla...

Quem são meus clientes? Líderes de Grupos de Usuários.

- Líder, o que você quer?

- Não sei como... (conseguir patrocinadores - organizar um evento - aumentar meu Grupo).

- Por favor, faça isto e aquilo. Que tal um evento sobre bla, bla, bla?

- Ótimo! Preciso de X e Y.

- Microsoft? Eu tenho X. Você pode me dar Y? Então eu lhe darei seus números, eventos e pessoas.

E, junto a isso, tentei estar disponível. Mesmo com meus atrasos no Live Messenger e e-mails :}

Hi, Graham Jones !

3) That's not true. We know what we can do, we already saw it, but this don't make Culminis help less important.

4) That's not the point. Why does someone need to understand and accept to loose support just to everyone has the same things ? Why can't Microsoft let the things as they are and investigate, by the example, how to make things work for other places ?

6) L5 schema just prevents that anyone start a user group and ask for large amounts of money. The requests to get at L5 are very simple, not difficult to any group. Mature user groups working together soon or later will get L5 together.

7) Are they ? This change started without any research about local communities. More than one person already told here that with the core services at Microsoft hands they will not work. Is Microsoft ready to hear this ?

8) Sometimes the investiment can't be demonstrated. Look here for Petrus message. He says how the events we did here help the IT Team of his company, that is separated in two different and far states of the country. That's ROI, but even I, leading the user group, didn't know this sucess history. MS should notice that not all the ROI is easy to identify and that's a big (or maybe the main) problem. Let's see : Isn't all these messages talking about Culminis sucess the demonstration of the ROI ? But they wasn't noticed before...

9) All the messages are saying what we need.

Dennes

Hi Dennes,

3. I don't recall saying that Culminis help is less important. I am simply saying that it is no more important than the community helping itself and never will be.

4. I was simply trying to say that there is another side to the story. I am genuinely pleased that things were working for you and I have no particular desire that you should be put at a disadvantage to meet other people's needs. You are assuming that Microsoft hasn't investigated how to make it work elsewhere. Do you think that they simply pulled the recent changes out of the air? I am sure that this has been in the making for some time and discussed endlessly.

5. I am not suggesting that there should be no requirements, simply different ones. We believe that the L5 scheme is ill founded, and if followed to the letter (please read it very carefully - it even has a mistake), is onerous. Besides asking for money and getting it are 2 very different things. Perhaps you don't mind being surveyed to death but we do. If the Canadian community is going to be willing to complete surveys we shouldn't need $250 inducements to do it.

7. You must know something that I don't because I don't recall anybody yet saying exactly how services are to be delivered. Saying that they will come from Microsoft only identifies where the final responsibility lies. Like you I truly hope that Microsoft is taking note, not just to satisfy you but as many as possible. Just because you are "happy" do you realistically expect the rest of us to do nothing about our situation? We are being no more or less selfish than you. I only hope that something can be worked out that suits all of us. You had the good fortune to have someone willing to listen and help you which doesn't seem to have been there before. They happened to be from Culminis and the rest is history.

8. I agree that it may be very difficult to demonstrate hard financial numbers. However, there has to be some measure of success. Otherwise no money is going to be invested. Microsoft rely heavily on "satisfaction levels". Supporting the community might seem the right intuitive thing to do but gut instinct isn't going to cut it. Ultimately these are business decisions and not simply a desire to be "helpful".

Graham J

Hola Graham (Hi Graham)

[First of all, apologize to everyone for not responding in English but i am very proud of my language. I thank you all for taking the trouble to translate my words.]

No tengo el gusto de conocerte sin embargo hay algo que nos une, que es el entusiasmo por el modelo de comunidad es en ese sentido, que me tomo la libertad de hablare sin ningún tipo de venda en el rostro tal y como le hablo a un amigo o a los miembros de TechNetPerú.

Gracias por informarnos de estos cambios, aunque personalmente me parece que antes de tomar tan importante decisión (que puede afectar de manera positiva o negativa a las comunidades) hubiese sido mejor hacer una encuesta entre todos los lideres de las comunidades que integran Culminis y no tomar una decisión solo entre la alta dirección de Microsoft y Culminis ya que lo que se ha hecho es arrojar la piedra y esconder la mano. Después de eso se pretende escuchar la voz de los líderes y/o miembros de las comunidades cuando las dicciones ya han sido tomadas. Es que acaso la voz de los miembros y/o lideres de las  comunidades no es importante para Microsoft y/o Culminis…!

Soy líder y cofundador de TechNetPerú (la primera organización independiente y auto sostenible sin fines de lucro de habla hispana basada en el modelo de comunidades en formarse en Perú y Sudamérica) vengo formo parte de comunidades tanto de desarrollo como de IT dentro y fuera de Perú por mas de 21 años, por lo que estoy completamente convencido, que el enfoque de apoyo que se deben de brindar a las comunidades es diferente y dependerá en parte del país al que esta perezca y del tipo de publico objetivo al cual se orienta la comunidad (profesionales, estudiantes o mixto).

Cuando TechNetPerú inicia sus actividades en Perú, no contaba con recursos financieros propios (salvo el dinero que cada uno de los fundadores ponía de sus propios recursos) y mucho menos contábamos con el apoyo directo y/o oficial de Microsoft (Microsoft Perú) pero para suerte nuestra contábamos con el apoyo invaluable de dos grandes amigos y entusiastas ingenieros de Microsoft Perú (Jorge Aguinaga y Alexandre Le Bienvenu) quienes nos proveían del material e información técnica, de las facilidades para disponer del auditorio de Microsoft Perú para realizar nuestra eventos (T-Events) y también de su tiempo para planear las primeras actividades así como también ser nuestros primeros expositores.

Por aquel entonces no se sabia nada de Culmiis, solo se hablaba de Ineta (eran los primeros años de Ineta) y lo maravilloso que era la propuesta que traía, así como, su modelo de voluntariado. Pero lamentablemente nosotros éramos una comunidad IT por lo que no contábamos con el apoyo de ello ya que ellos solo veían comunidades de Desarrolladores al igual de Microsoft.

Después de algún tiempo (2 años si la mente no me traiciona) somos contactados por Guillermo Taylor de Microsoft para conocer de nuestra experiencia y apoyarlo en la formación de otras comunidades en la Región Andina, paralelo a ello Culminis hace su aparición por la Región Andina y el mensaje que nos vendió en un primer momento fue que seria la solución a muchos de los problemas que las comunidades afrontaban -acceso a material técnico y recursos financieros- (Después se nos dijo que el mensaje que se nos vendió no era exacto pero con el trascurrir del tiempo el mensaje inicial se hizo realidad en alguna manera). Yo fui uno de los líderes fundadores de TechNetPerú que no creyó mucho en el mensaje de Culminis ya que pensaba que seria algo mas como Ineta, pero su modelo de organización no basado en voluntarios es que me hizo darle un voto de confianza y apostar por Culminis y su modelo organizacional.

Quizá se preguntaran por que es que confié en el modelo organizacional que traía Culmiis, pues simple, al tener a una persona ocupando el 100% de su tiempo en desempeñar una determinada función o labor por la cual recibe una retribución económica, con justa razón se le puede exigir resultados de su gestión y/o hasta querellarlo judicialmente por una indebida labor. Lo que no se podía hacer (no se si ahora se podrá) con el modelo de Ineta, pues, por aquel entonces se podía apreciar en Ineta que existían voluntarios por doquier pero muchos de ellos no desempeñaban las funciones a las cuales se habían comprometido arguyendo que no disponían de los medios o de tiempo por dedicarse a sus actividades profesionales o personales. Con mucha tristeza les comentare sin mencionar nombres que se de muchos voluntarios que estaban como se dice aquí en Perú, no por amor al Chancho sino a los Chicharrones, o sea solo se ofrecían de voluntarios con la finalidad de poder obtener beneficios personales (viajes, material, etc.) lo cual no hubiera sido malo si es que se hubiesen ofrecido de voluntarios y abiertamente expresado “hago todo esto si se me da esto aquello” con lo que desde mi punto de vista dejan de ser voluntarios y entran al modelo de Culminis de no voluntarios.

El modelo organizacional actual de Culminis (de no voluntarios) para Perú y para países con economías emergentes o donde el alcanzar una certificación oficial resulta algo oneroso me parece el adecuado, quizás hay cosas que redefinir o pulir. El éxito del modelo organizacional de Culminis lo evidencio en los resultados que he podido observar en algunas comunidades de Perú las cuales han logrado desarrollar con mayor frecuencia sus eventos o mejor calidad la calidad de los mismos, así como también sacar adelante, cursos y talleres. Es más hasta Microsoft (Microsoft Perú) se ha visto favorecida y apoyada por Culminis con dinero para el desarrollo de sus eventos (gira de Robert Hess).

Es por estas razones que no estoy de acuerdo con el modelo basado en voluntariado, dado que en la práctica es una utopía y las acciones que se deban de realizar se pueden ver retrasar con el correr del tiempo ya que se dependerá de la buena disposición y tiempo, así como, del desgaste de los voluntarios.

Atentamente

Alberto Alexander Miñano Villavicencio

TechNetPerú

Hi, Graham Jones,

4) They didn't noticed Culminis was a so big success in Brazil and LATAM, this reaction here at the blog surprised them; they didn't noticed that in Brazil Culminis supports all the community and not only IT Community. So, discussions and plannings was not so complete.

5) Here, Culminis was always open to sugestions.

7) My comments, I told this, James Jefferson told this, Luiz Pena told this, Marcel Luiz told this, Marcio Peixoto said this. So, not only me, a lot of people are saying the same. You want to change your situation because you are unhappy, fine, but change your situation, not the rest of the world.

8) Try to demonstrate something that's impossible to demonstrate is the better way to fail and we was watching a lot of fails like this through the years. They help community or they don't help community, the middle way results in bad decisions that make community go years backwards in its way to work. Things like this destroy the passion and passion isn't an easy thing to get back

Dennes

I am really delighted to see this change.Culminis has played a huge role for the success of our user group(WindowsSupport).Our Events couldn't happen if there was no Culminis.What I feel that the effort what Culminis is putting behind User Group is simply awesome.I believe that in coming days it will play a huge role in Indian User groups or communities.Thanks Culminis for everything.

Hi Dennes and fellow leaders,

I am just curious as most comments in this post are from Brazilian leaders. Those not happy with the support they have (or haven't received) from Culminis might not comment here as they might not care (anymore).

Reading all the posts it is still not clear to me as what you really have received from Culminis. In Brazil you have received money from Microsoft, via Culminis, speakers from Microsoft via Culminis... Are you only motivated because of the dollars or was it just the trigger to get things moving?

I feel you are mixing services versus having a catalysator or listening ear for the user group leaders in order to step up and make the events happen. In the end you, the leader and your members, have to do it, nobody else, no matter how much money you have received for travel/events etc. You have mobilized all the people to come to the 50+ events in one day (please tell me how you have managed this as I organize and manage events as a professional and this sounds like a phenomenal job you have done, my respect!!!)

In EMEA we have a bit more challenges as we can easily travel 30km and have to speak 3 different languages with the related cultural differences. But also costs for travel are high. Having over 24 languages in the EMEA region does not make it easy to have one common service managed from outside the region. And Culminis closed down EMEA last year, limited support in Canada and in Australia it has never worked.

Good to see how the Brazil community has flourished we have to see things broader than just one country and I think here Graham has a big challenge as he also made clear that there should be business value in any of the services they offer. Microsoft is a commercial company and all their services are really great, but can stop any moment, just like e.g. the MVP award.

Answering monthly surveys don't work that well here and I doubt if they really reflect the global view of the situation. If you only get responses from Level 5 leaders, who are already responsive doesn't mean it reflects the whole community. And is a small local group of 30 SBS consultants more or less important compared to an online community on Microsoft XP with 50.000 members and 5.000 daily visitors? Or a small group of 20 people meeting every month versus one big event once a year?

Maybe the SBS consultants are too busy to respond to surveys, although their input is of high value. These are simply observations as what is all happening in the community and there is still more out and unknown to us. I have great respect for Graham and his team to make this decision in order to move forward. In the SBS community we already talk about "Culminis 2.0" just to show how the situation can change over time.

Some food for thought:

Is Culminis really the voice of 3m+ IT professionals or are these just membership numbers? Are they representing 800+ IT Pro user group leaders or only Level 5 user group leaders? Do all user group leaders forward the Voice to their members, what is the real reach? In France there is one user group who has over 800.000 developers as members, is he representative for the IT Pro community?

If one country is satisfied, it does not mean it will work in other countries. Big differences between UK, Germany and France are a classic example and the distance is not that far. And moreover it is a people business. Working with e.g. Microsoft IT evangelists in Belgium and Netherlands their focus is completely different towards user groups, and still both are doing a great job.

This week in Belgium 8 communities have joined forces for the second year and are organizing a Belgium Communityday (www.communityday.be), but Culminis is not sponsoring at all, how come? Microsoft Belgium directly sponsors the event!

Just my two cents

Bart

My big question is, will Culminis under this system be tied solely to supporting Microsoft-based groups? Is Microsoft going to be willing to provide funding and support for user groups to hear speakers on competing operating systems and software products? In our own user group, there are large numbers of IT Pros who have to deal with mixed environments of Microsoft, Apple, and Unix/Linux machines.

How much money is Microsoft going to be willing to shell out when a group isn't talking about Microsoft products? Culminis always had a large Microsoft presence, but they also had a willingness to be engaged with all _IT Pros_ not just Microsoft-based ones.

And what about groups supporting products that Microsoft considers obsolete, like XP, but which are still used by many. Will MS be supplying resources to assist these groups?

Translation for:

Alberto said:  

Hi Graham

I have not had the pleasure to meet you, but I know that something unites us, and that is the enthusiasm for the community model, and I take the liberty to speak without any kind of band on my face and how I would speak to a friend or to the members of TechNetPeru.

Thanks for informing us on these changes, although personally I think that before making such an important decision (that can affect user groups positively or negatively), it would have been better to make a survey to the leaders of the user groups that are members of Culminis, and not make a decision based on upper management of Microsoft and Culminis because all you have done is thrown a rock and hidden your hands. After this, you expect to listen to the voice of the leaders and/or members of the user groups when the decision has already been made! Is it that the voice of the members and/or leaders of the user groups is unimportant to Microsoft and/or Culminis…!

I am the leader and cofounder of TechNetPerú (the first independent and self-sustainable non-profit organization of the Spanish language based on the community model and formed in Peru and South America) and I have been a part of developer and IT communities inside and outside of Peru for more than 21 years, and that is why i am totally convinced, that the focus of support that should be given to communities is different and depends on the part of the country that the community belongs to and to the audience of the group (professional, student, or mixed).

When TechNetPerú began activities in Peru, it did not have it's own financial resources (except for the money that each of the founders put towards the group from their own pockets)and we had even less direct support officialy from Microsoft (Microsoft Perú) but luckily for us, we had the inconditional support of two great friends and engineer enthusiasts from Microsoft Perú (Jorge Aguinaga and Alexandre Le Bienvenu) who provided us with material and technical information, and allowed for us to use their facilities and auditorium of Microsoft Perú to have our events (T-Events) yand also their time to help plan the first activities and they were also our first speakers.

In that time, Culminis did not exist, and all we knew was Ineta (they were the first years of Ineta), and we knew of their wonderful proposal of their volunteer organization. Unfortunately, we were an IT community, and we did not qualify for their support since they only worked with developer groups, just like microsoft.

After some time(2 years, if my mind doesn't trick me) we were contacted by Guillermo Taylor of Microsoft because he wished to know more of our experience and to be able to support us, and help create other communities in the Andean region, and that was when Culminis appeared in the Andean Region and the message that we were sold at first was that they would resolve the majority of the problems the community faced -access to technical material and financial resources- (Later we were told that the message we were sold wasn't exactly as they said but with time, the initial message became a reality). I was one of the founding leaders of TechNetPerú that did not believe much in the Culminis message and I thought it was going to be more like Ineta, but their organizational model, not based on volunteers, is what made me give them my trust and allowed me to bet on Culminis and their structure.

Maybe you ask why I trusted the Culminis organizational model, and it's simple. By having one person occupied 100% of their time to do a determined function or task that they are paid for, with just reason you can demand results and ask them when they haven't done something as well. Which you can't do (I don't know if it can be done) with a model like Ineta, because what I could see with Ineta is that thre are volunteers everywhere, but most of them don't do their tasks that they commited to do arguing that they don't have the means or the time since they have to dedicate themselves to their professional activities and personal lives. With much sadness I have to tell you without mentioning names that I know of many volunteers that were offering themselves as volunteers with the end goal of obtaining personal benefits (trips, material, etc)which wouldn't have been bad if they had openly expressed that "I'll do this, if you give me that", and with that, they stop being volunteers, and then they go to the Culminis model as non-volunteers.

The organizational model of Culminis (non-volunteer based), for Peru and in countries of emerging economies or where obtaining an oficial certification is something  difficult to do, I think that it's adequate, and maybe there are some things to redefine and polish. The success of the organizational model of Culminis is evidenced in the results that we have been able to observe in some of the communities of Peru that have been able to have events more frequently and of a higher quality as well as being able to have workshops and seminars. Also, Microsoft (Microsoft Perú) has even benefitted locally from Culminis support in helping Microsoft with funding for events (Robert Hess tour).

It's for these reasns that I do not agree with the volunteer based model, since this practice is more of an utopia and the actions that need to take place can make it seem like we're going backwards over time, since it depends mostly on good disposition and time, as well as burn out of the volunteers.. .

Sincerely

Alberto Alexander Miñano Villavicencio

TechNetPerú

Translation of:

José Antonio Velarde Díaz said:

Good morning Mr. Watson:

I am the leader of an IT community in Peru, specifically Ayacucho, our community is  TechNetAyacucho. I started as a leader 4 years ago, and looking back I have seen that 90% of our events have been paid from our own pockets, personally I remember that the money I'd earn from my job, with som additional tips, I'd put it towards having events in my city, for my groups.. they were very difficult years... since then we have had the help of Culminis, entity that gave us very good tips that helped us add value and give direction to our community (Culminis helped us when our group was about to close), and we were able to start again. I had the pleasure of meeting Daniel de la Haza (although I had known of him before), but this time we were in more communication, and through him I had a lot of support in organizing several events, and with him as a mediator, we were able to bring several speakers on Microsoft technology.  

At the beginning of this year, 2008, Culminis helped us more than we could have hoped... Culminis helped us with funding to have events... and this meant we'd no longer have to pay out of our pockets... ?¿?

We started great efforts and even Guillermo Taylor, was a great pillar for our community work in our country and to see that our community was growing more commited with Microsoft;  Ayacucho es un is a department (state) of Peru that did not have events, but with Guillermo Taylor's support as IT Evangelist, the organization changed, and we had a lot more support. IT FELT AS IF MICROSOFT WAS SUPPORTING US AND TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE COMMUNITY, together with Culminis and the continuous support of Daniel de la Haza who has always been available we we need him, and I can't forget Ms. Vicki Tomich, who have both done a stupendous job in favor of the community and that is why you can see that in the last fiscal year, Peru has done a large number of events and the user groups grew closer to their members and Microsoft, thanks to Culminis and Guillermo Taylor I was able to study and am now an MCP and incredibly our community has been able to have 2 events per month!!! It's through this that you can see the support and importance Culminis has had.

Regardless, by receiving the message today that Culminis is changing in the course of the following months to a volunteer organization, well it makes me think that this will take us back in what we have been able to do, volunteer support means that nobody will be 100% focused on the communities, and it will only be when someone has time... this means that communities will be taken farther away from Microsoft, I think there should always be a nexus between Microsoft and the community and I think Culminis is the entity that has been doing this correctly. If Culminis adopts a volunteer structure the communities will be unprotected, without the support of Microsoft and the truth is that the reality in every region is different and you can't compare LATAM to USA or Europe, where perhaps the changes may work- but in LATAM  it is completely different. Imagine that I've been 3 years working on my own means and Culminis appeared and began helping us economically  with a staff that worries about the well being of the communities and support via email and messenger consistently and then all of a sudden the idea arises that it all must change for a volunteer policy in Culminis... but I DO NOT AGREE... and I don't think I'm the only leader of a Peruvian community and in Latin America that thinks this way. I think that for the majority of groups in Latin America, Culminis has been the best nexus between community and Microsoft... and I'm asking you to please evaluate carefully this issue. Let's not go back in the support communities are receiving. on teh contrary, let's adopt better measures so that communities can become more competent and that way Microsoft can benefit and the millions of professionals can learn about the new technologies Microsoft offers, but THANKS TO THE COMMUNITIES THAT EXIST GLOBALLY, Culminis has given us a lot of support to accomplish our objectives and we want them to continue doing so with the people they have, and to keep thecommunication going. I hope that our points of view are being taken into account in favor of all the community.

Regards...

José Antonio Velarde Díaz

Community Leader TechNetAyacucho

Microsoft Certified Professional

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to make a couple of things crystal clear, as there seems to ba a lot of concern about things we WILL be addressing: -

1) We know Culminis has worked well in LatAm. The thing that has surprised me more than anything about the comments is the number of people who seem to think that this change automatically means that they will get much worse support. This is definitely NOT the intention, we expect to be able to keep a similar level of support in LatAm, but bring up the level of support elsewhere in the world. I'm going to make sure I come to TechEd Brazil, and I really hope you will all be able to tell me how well this is working!

2) We are NOT reducing funding to user groups at all. If anything, we hope that the level of direct funding (as opposed to our infrastructure costs) will go up as a result of these changes.

3) Culminis will NOT cease to exist - it will become a volunteer organisation, and hence even more your voice than it is now.

Many Thanks,

Graham

Dear Graham. I am founder of a UG IT Pros in the central region of Peru, called TechNet Huancayo, founded in 2003 currently has more than 2 thousand participants, I'm on Windows Server MVP Customer Experience since 2006. Do not write for money, budget or resources, and because I always believe that communities should be self-sustaining, as my community has shown over time. I will talk to people, communities techniques are shaped by users, including their leaders, obviously Culminis is formed by people, and people are very bright, Dave Sanders from whom I had the opportunity to know the person in 2005 in Lima Peru at a summit Leaders of the Andean Region, there also had the chance to meet Vicki Tomich, with whom I speak for many hours on the experience of doing community and whom I have learned much over the years. The treatment of Vicki before and after knowing has been very friendly and proactive, always providing solutions and with so many responsibilities and address issues that proceeds from their work, has always responded to my mail, my instant messages via IM and when there was opportunity , At phone calls. It is that Microsoft can make this work better, with Ineta trying to do this, but from the viewpoint of my UG and part of my  coregroup

and leaders of communities techniques IT Pros of my country, Peru, Ineta not responding to the needs of communities of developers Culminis if he does brilliantly with the UGs IT pros, so that the communities of Developers now are receiving the benefits of Culminis. Mr Graham, just ask reports of support provided by Culminis in Peru and may verify that the Developers of communities that must be supported by Ineta they do not, rely on Culminis, and the reason is simple, there Culminis proactivity and immediate solutions There are common sense to get in the shoes of the leaders of communities and understand their needs, something that I have not seen in Ineta and I say this with knowledge and facts, as I am speaker also regional Ineta and I have witnessed in the Ineta things simply do not work or go very slow, Culminis makes a difference when it comes to meeting the needs of UGs is concerned, and which is the main reason for this? Easy: Ineta has volunteers, employees of Culminis has dedicated 100% to make things work.

I do not live in the U.S., nor in Europe, I'm Latin American and I'm very proud to be, if things have not Culminis result for USA, Canada, Europe or any other region, is not by Culminis, is for people who have been in Directors in charge of those regions

I am sure that if or Vicki Tomich or Daniel De la Haza had been in charge of those regions rather than Latam, things would be invested in the comments that come here reading. This transition will not only affect those leaders UGs, but the participants and these are counted by thousands.

You might wonder about Microsoft in the return of this investment and the impact of the beneficiaries, because as far as my city, there is the taking of Technology based on Windows Server 2003 and Windows XP on companies with licensed technology obviously, is has increased the use of Microsoft products in the Professionals and students in the upper tier, the presence of the Microsoft brand in central Peru is very strong, despite that there are two UGS Open Source and continue over some Cree this line, our UG has made the effort to take very good events with great ability to call and that results can be seen in sight. Without the support of Culminis, this would have taken much more time to achieve.

Is it too late to request a review on this transition, but equally I try. I would like, on behalf of my UG, my coregroup my colleagues and community leaders of Peru, which is to reconsider the case of Latin America to continue as the charges are so far and evaluate the work that Vicki, Daniel and Emilio have made in recent years, well, that this transition would be ideal to reach only the first world UGs also because they are in the right to receive the benefits and technological development and are asking whether it is Microsoft who now managing resources by volunteering, because that happens. But if Latin America is very different and shows it to leave some links to how much has been done with few resources, even some of them self:

http://thevoice.culminis.com/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=54

http://groups.msn.com/technethuancayo/infotech1.msnw

I appreciate enormously to take into consideration this commentary, as I said in my first lines, this is not about resources or budget ... these are people.

Greetings and that this increasingly.

Jose Espinoza Landa

MVP Windows Server since 2006

Tradução do comentário de Graham Watson:

Alô a todos,

Gostaria de deixar algumas coisas bem claras, pois parece que existe muita preocupação sobre coisas que IREMOS cuidar: -

1) Nós sabemos que a Culminis trabalhou bem na América Latina. O que me deixou surpreso, mais do que qualquer coisa nos comentários, foi o número de pessoas que parecem pensar que esta mudança automaticamente significa que irão ter um suporte bem pior. Definitivamente esta NÃO é nossa intenção, contamos com que sejamos capazes de manter um nível similar de suporte na América Latina, mas aumentar o nível de suporte nos outros locais do mundo. Vou garantir que irei ao TechEd Brasil e gostaria muito de ouvir vocês como estão indo as coisas.

2)  Nós NÃO reduziremos os fundos para os Grupos de Usuários de forma alguma. Se algo acontecer, esperamos que seja que o nível de patrocínio direto (ao contrátio aos nossos custos de infra-estrutura) aumentem como resultado desta mudança.

3) A Culminis não deixará de existir - ela se tornará uma organização voluntária e terá uma voz mais forte ainda.

Muito obrigado,

Graham

Hi!

Graham, you wrote:

"Culminis will become a volunteer-based organization, very similar to INETA"

Trying to summarize, in Brazil (I don't know all LATAM):

Culminis = Good

INETA = Bad

Graham said: Culminis will be as INETA

Result: Fear :)

What Leaders are not seeing is that is the chance to make INETA a good thing ;)

== Translating.... Traduzindo ==

Oi!

Graham, você escreveu:

"A Culminis se tornará uma organização voluntariada, muito similar à INETA"

Tentando resumir, no Brasil (não sei no resto da América Latina):

Culminis = Bom

INETA = Ruim

Graham disse: Culminis será como INETA

Resultado: Medo :)

O que os Líderes não estão vendo é que esta é a chance de fazer a INETA uma coisa boa :)

Hi, Bart !

You asked too many things, I will answer in two comments, ok ?

"I am just curious as most comments in this post are from Brazilian leaders. Those not happy with the support they have (or haven't received) from Culminis might not comment here as they might not care (anymore)."

Since march, we created here a quickly way of communication with main user group leaders in the country (and that's a lot). Because that, there are a lot of Brazilian comments here.

But comments from LATAM (Peru) already arrived. Just a difference in timing. There is also comments from NORAM.

"Reading all the posts it is still not clear to me as what you really have received from Culminis. In Brazil you have received money from Microsoft, via Culminis, speakers from Microsoft via Culminis... Are you only motivated because of the dollars or was it just the trigger to get things moving?"

I'm not sure if I understood the question. The dollars was a central point of all this. We never received financial support from Microsoft. Events became bigger exactly because the money support.

But not just it. The way Culminis is always near the community, helping community, even, sometimes, against Microsoft, is something we can't measure.

"I feel you are mixing services versus having a catalysator or listening ear for the user group leaders in order to step up and make the events happen."

No, we aren't. We talked in email about how I don't believe Microsoft will do a good support with core services.

"Good to see how the Brazil community has flourished we have to see things broader than just one country"

Sure, but you already have comments here from Peru and NORAM and that's just the beginning

"Microsoft is a commercial company and all their services are really great, but can stop any moment, just like e.g. the MVP award."

That's not a good support for community, in any way. Exactly the opposite, that's exaclty what make community passion goes away, like mine.

You can't measure the results of a community investment. You can't do this in a direct way.

Let's see a small, very small, example : I have a training company in Rio de Janeiro. I started to do events, a lot of Microsoft events all around the city. I haven't any way to measure the event return, that's impossible. But, after some time, I never make any publicity in newspapers or anything else and my company is recognized all around the country (not the city, the country) that's a result I got after a long time work, and we can't create an exactly measure for this result.

"Answering monthly surveys don't work that well here and I doubt if they really reflect the global view of the situation. If you only get responses from Level 5 leaders, who are already responsive doesn't mean it reflects the whole community. And is a small local group of 30 SBS consultants more or less important compared to an online community on Microsoft XP with 50.000 members and 5.000 daily visitors? Or a small group of 20 people meeting every month versus one big event once a year?"

I'm not sure if I understood the point about surveys. Culminis noticed that event for very big groups, the survey answers is very small,  20, 30 members answering surveys. This doesn't mean the group has 20, 30 members, and Culminis knows that. The answer to surveys is getting bigger each month.

"Is Culminis really the voice of 3m+ IT professionals or are these just membership numbers?"

Culminis give all these members the oportunity to say what they think. Not everyone participates, that's a fact, but the opportunity is there. A lot of ways to get it better can be thinked without changing the structure of Culminis.

"Are they representing 800+ IT Pro user group leaders or only Level 5 user group leaders?"

A lot of user group leaders that already commented here aren't level 5 leaders.

"Do all user group leaders forward the Voice to their members, what is the real reach?"

Culminis was working on this until now. I see no reason to change Culminis structure because that, Culminis isn't static about this topic, is always working on this.

"In France there is one user group who has over 800.000 developers as members, is he representative for the IT Pro community?"

The leader of the user group send the survey and the voice to their members ? After that, it's a choice of each member to participate or not and the choice don't change Culminis value.

Dennes

Hi, Graham !

1) Do you know that a lot of my events this year was banned from Microsoft event support in Brasil ?

Want to know why ?

Because at March 15 I organized 59 event in one day. 59 ! It was a great result, but terrible for me, too much work. 54 of these 59 events worked very, very well. But the events was all around the country and in some places was organized by people that have no experience with microsoft contact.

So, for these 54 events, some of them still didn't returned the presence list of the event, may be 15. Because that, I'm banned from event support, a lot of my events didn't received Microsoft support and until now I don't know if Microsoft will support my events in Amazonas, at July 12.

What they say ? I knew the rules and I broke them. Sure, that's a fact. I also knew that the rules was made for user groups organizing 1 or 2 events, not 54. Microsoft isn't agile and organized enough to work with quickly changes like that.

Do you understand know why I'm so sure that the user groups will loose support if the core services are given to Microsoft ?

They already said I will loose my MVP because my opinions I'm saying here. I don't care any more. Passion has gone away.

2) No, but you changing the rules to apply to fundings and we can expect absurd rules like in topic 1

3) I was banned from INETA commitee and I retired my group from INETA a lot of years ago.

Want to know why ?

Politics. INETA, as a voluntare organization, was filled with people making politics and that was a desaster. Just know we have serious people in front of INETA, but it take 6 years for that. So you are transforming Culminis in this thing. No good.

Dennes

Traducción de

Graham Watson said:  

Saludos a todos,

Solamente quiero aclarar algunas cosas, ya que parece que hay bastante preocupación sobre los temas que vamos a tratar: -

1) Sabemos que Culminis ha trabajado bien en LatAm. La cosa que me ha sorprendido mas que nada de los comentarios  es el número de personas que piensan que este cambio automaticamente significa que el soporte va a empeorar. Esto definitivamente no es la intención, nosotros esperamos mantener un nivel similar de soporte en LatAm, pero incrementaremos el nivel de soporte en el resto del mundo. Voy a asegurarme de it a TechEd Brazil, y realmente espero que me digan que tal estan funcionando las cosas!

2) NO estamos reduciendo financiamiento a los grupos de usuarios. En cualquier caso, esperamos que el nivel de financiamiento directo (al contrario de nuestros costos de infraestructura) se incrementarán como resultado de estos cambios.

3) Culminis NO dejará de existir - se va a convertir en una organización de voluntarios, y por lo tanto, su voz se escuchará mas que lo que se escucha ahora.

Muchas Gracias,

Graham

I've been reading these comments for the last couple days trying to take in what everyone has said.

At least to me, I don't see how they could keep Culminus the way it was in some area's, but change it in others; not fundamentally the way they are.

Generally speaking, here in Canada a number of the UG Leaders, including myself have been unhappy with the support and stuff offered by Culminus.   Talking with UG leaders beyond those in Canada, there was a number of other people in other regions also disappointed with the support from them...  

For the last few years, Microsoft has been facing growing criticism of Culminus, and the need to do something with it.    They have finally done something about it.

None of us really know what the impact of these changes are going to be, at least not yet.  Time will tell.

I'm not sure what it is like in the rest of the world, but Microsoft Canada has been really good for us, filling in the voids where Culminus did not.  So, now thing are changing from MS Corp, it has a number of us equally worried, about what that change will have on our relationship with MS Canada.  

Really, at this point, there is no point in imagining the worst case situations, as we don't know what the impacts will be.  From what I can tell, Graham, and the others in MS Corp are still trying to resolve how things will change; and we need to give them the freedom to resolve these issues.   Don't get me wrong, we still need to voice our concerns, about things that are important.

At least to me, Graham seems interested in that, and even started a separate post to find out what was so successful with Culminus in LATM.  My guess is so that they can keep that going.  

Anyways,  Thanks Graham and all the others working on it behind the scenes.  I'm looking forward to engaging with you as things go forward.

Colin

Edmonton Microsoft User Group

Well i'm again here and still have the opposite comments on the Culminis.

culminis was good to me when I was connected with Bart and he was taking care of EMEA. Bart left and then there were no contact from Culminis for the next 6 months even though they had the repalcement RD.

I've contacted Vicki many times and she was supportive too but it was not her regio to help me out. I tried many times to get the support from new RD for EMEA and APCA (no need to mention the name) but the support was just for the sake of name.

It is true that culminis did not have the good people in our region to support us like Vicki but why they stopped the Europe region, why they removed Bart out of no where...........?

What I see from the comments above that no doubt Culminis worked very well for the Brazil and connected regions but Culminis was not supposed to concentrate only on one region.

Wasn't this the responsibility of the Culminis Management to worry about that why they were not seeing Culminis happening in other countries?

Were they satisified and getting their $$$$ only for the Brazil?

Culminis claims to represent 3M IT Pro and I'm among them and comes under Level 5 UG but never ever had support from Culminis... I approached many time even the CEO?  So where were the CEO? What was his responsibility..... just make Culminis happen in the Brazil?

The question is that will Microsoft support the UG and if yes then how good?

What do we need.. ?

Money to organize the event?

Event Marketing?

Speakers?

Sponsors?

Microsoft is ready to offer this so what is the problem. Instead of paying $$$$ to the Culminis employed people this money can be utilized for the UG and it seems to me the same formula what Culminis did with EMEA operation and then you found that Culminis is happening anf helping the user group financially.

So I'm sure this model will work and UG will get more now from Culminis becuse money will be utilized again for the UG.

This way UG Leader will have direct connection with Microsoft and will have more responsibility resulting in UG Leader as a CULMINIS himself/herself.

What I think is that Culminis didn't have the allocated budget for every region, and seems most of the budget is spent to the Brazil UG and while we are still expecting it to come ... which never happend. On the other way I guess Microsoft will have allocated budget for every region which seems fair enough .. (Graham please comments on this).

In the last 3-4 years working with culminis I've not any support except blah blah blah...... and getting email from their RD that I'm in this country and moving next to another country.............

So I feel sorry for Vicki and other people who did their job very good for their region and I'd request Microsoft to join their team and use their experience for a better community.

Hi Dennes,

Relax! Graham has expressed that they will keep the current support (and money support) and build on it to make it even better, but also to increase the experience and support in other regions. Stay positive and keep up the good work for the community. In the end you, as a person are making the community and you continue to do it whatever happens, that is the true spirit of a great user group leader. Passions is great, but don't let it be ruined by fear.

So far the new structure is unclear, but we have to give them some time to work out all details in the next couple of months.

Over the last couple of years Microsoft has learned a lot about communities and Christine Betts (GM Technical Audience Global Marketing) and Michael Alcock have build a whole team to support the communities. I don't think Microsoft would just wipe this work out without given it a thought.

Bart

Good day to you all,

I sense some very tense feelings towards this news and the proposed changes and all I will say is this, I have worked with Mr. Sanders and his very efficient team of people at Culminis. I have nothing but love and respect for every single one of them. I wish that they will continue what they have started and hopefully this new change will allow them to get over the hurdles experienced while making the mark.

I have also worked with Mr. Graham and I have much love and admiration for him and his team as well. They have been very receptive to working with Culminis and listening to the needs of the IT professional’s community.

That said, I would suggest that we have faith in sharing the vision of these 2 great people coming together and putting their thoughts and mindsets at work in looking at the very issues you're describing and finding a working solution for all. We must have faith and trust in our leaders or else all is lost. Instead of badgering and creating fears of this new move, why not support it and help to make it work for us all.

Let's show some support for our valiant leaders in an effort to create a better support organization for the IT professional’s community. I will represent my network/consortium by standing by them and supporting them in any way I can. Whether we get the aide mentally, financially or in any other way, we know for sure that someone is benefiting from all this in one way or another as we all have seen and heard so far.

Be glad for our fellow peers who have benefited and found value in working with the organizations in the past, throw in your support and we'll see a much better value coming out of this new move. I am sure they won’t let us down.

My salutations to you Mr. Sanders and Mr. Graham for a job well done over the years and please feel free to call on us here at TITSSN if and when needed. The best is yet to come.

~Brett A. Scudder~

President/Chairman

TITSSN

"All this travel was paid by Culminis money."

(...)

"Do you know that a lot of my events this year was banned from Microsoft event support in Brasil ?"

(...)

"I was banned from INETA commitee and I retired my group from INETA a lot of years ago."

:D

Ok, I got it...

Hi Dennes,

4. If you recall I mentioned that Emilio made a presentation at the MVP Summit. Graham Watson was present so he must have been aware. Further, do you really expect me to believe that Culminis would not regularly report their positive work in Brazil to Redmond? Also, when Culminis was approached about these changes I find it hard to believe that they would not point out all relevant information before a decision was made. If they didn't then your arguement is with Culminis and not Microsoft.

5. In Canada we recently went through an exercise to see if there was any way that we could "mend" things with Culminis. I ran that exercise on behalf of the Canadian community and produced a report. The way the response to the report  was handled only served to further anger most people. If they were open to suggestions from you, why did they reject out of hand any proposals from us? I put considerable effort into getting input from people all across Canada. I also did it at very considerable risk to my personal reputation with the other Canadian leaders (I doubt Culminis understood how far I was stickng my neck out). Just mention the word "Culminis" here and you had better duck. Why did I do it and take the risk? I did it because I had a genuine wish, and always have had, to try and find a way for Culminis to work here. They simply didn't make it easy. This was an opportunity for Culminis to take our proposal and at least discuss it. Who knows where that might have gone. It was a genuine reflection of people's feelings but it was basically spurned! Although we have outstanding support from Microsoft here, I still saw a potential role for Culminis if we could find a way for us all to "play nicely together". Regardless of any relationship with Culminis that will not affect the solid relationship we have with Microsoft Canada. Perhaps Culminis thought that "two's company and three's a crowd"? Who knows?

So why have we had such diametrically opposite experiences? I don't have a simple answer but the following spring to mind as some possible factors:

a) Timing (ie. the maturity of Culminis at the time of first engagement - when your reputation has gone it is very difficult to get it back)

b) Community relationship with local Microsoft offices/resources. The attitude of Microsoft in different regions towards the community may vary a lot

c) The maturity of the local community. Clearly in LATAM the timing and opportunity seems to have been right for Culminis

d) The quality of local Culminis personnel

e) Local culture

7. See 5 above. If that is not trying to change the situation, what is? You have only ever seen the positive side of Culminis and probably think that the problems elsewhere are due to a combination of different Culminis personnel and the communities. I can absolutely assure you that is not the case. Do you not think it strange that all of the support for Culminis is only coming from LATAM? I also suspect that we haven't heard from the "silent majority" who would be supporting Culminis just as fiercely as you if that is how they felt. I suspect there is a good deal of apathy surrounding this topic.

8. I don't pretend to understand the measurement methods used by Microsoft but be assured that they are definitely there. When they change that reverberates throughout the whole organization. People get pay rises/bonuses (and possibly the opposite) based upon certain measures. If you think that Microsoft would enter into any exercise without first deciding how to try and measure the benefit then you are deluding yourself. They have masses of stats where "satisfaction levels" of various kinds can be associated with business activity and revenue. Individuals at Microsoft may be genuinely pleased that in the process of supporting the community people in the community benefit personally and professionally, but that's NOT the prime objective! If everybody gains then we have the best of all worlds, "a win, win proposition".

As Graham Watson has written, I think there are some misunderstandings here which has created a certain amount of "panic". For example, making comparisons with INETA. It is true that INETA struggles at times becuse of the largely "volunteer" component. That is evident in LATAM where Culminis has stepped into the void left by INETA. In my personal opinion that should not have happened because it may now have only made matters worse. INETA should have been fixed and Culminis stayed away from their "territory". In LATAM you were just so pleased to have someone paying attention that it was ignored.

We need to learn from the INETA experience as much as anything else. My personal vision is for something of a "hybrid" between Culminis and INETA. "Volunteer" to me means more direct input into the operation/workings of Culminis from the community and for INETA more full-time support. You may not realize it but, in some ways, you may be part way there in LATAM because of "history". You keep saying that Culminis "listens" to you. In many respects that is all we are asking for. We want to be "heard" in a way that we can have some real influence. All Graham Watson is proposing is to formalize that in a way that it can be managed and monitored, which is very reasonable from a Microsoft standpoint. It is their money!

Graham J

Hi, Bart!

Answering you : The history of March 15

Everything started with a Microsoft proposal - repeat the same event we did in 2005 when VS 2005 was launched (yes, surprise : It wasn't the first time, we did that before).

I was in 2005 launch, I organized a lot of launch sites, so I have the experience with this kind of event.

Microsoft proposal was to create a one day event talking about all three technologies : Windows Server 2008, Visual Studio 2008 and SQL Server 2008. The three technologies in one day.

To make the union of the events, Microsoft would, like 2005, do an online webcast at the beggining of the event.

My experience said immediataly to me : That's bad. They are understimating the opportunity. Three technologies in a day make the topics too superficial, not what the public expects from the user groups. Even worse than that, because Microsoft set the event to go just until 13PM, with the three technologies.

I talked with the speakers that works with me and they agree that would be very better if the event was an entire day event with just one technology. Not only we will have a deeper technical event but also we will do more events, with one speaker in each place.

So, with the experience I already have, I created two discussion lists, one for the speakers and one for the speakers assistants. Yes, That's it : Each speaker needs an assistant. Because while the speaker will use his entire time to study for the speach, the assistant will use his time to prepare all the infrastructure for the event. So, two main persons involved in the event.

First mistake : I understimate the event. I created the list with its name tied with my state - Rio - and the work expanded to all the country. That was a mistake.

Here in Brazil we always work with university, there isn't any reason to do different. Universities offers their space for free and the events can be open to everyone, so we integrate the academic community with the professional community and the entire result is good. We aren't limited on the subjects we talk about just because we are in a university.

So, for the surprise of everyone, new speakers started to offer themselves to speak. User group members offered themselves to speak. So, sundely, we was with more speakes than places for them.

To solve this, I started to send e-mails to coordinators of academic courses (I don't know if this name is the name in English) offering the realization of the event. The result was great, they loved it !

It was time to face new problems - nothing in the event organization was prepared for what we was doig :

A) Microsoft expected one event by user group, I organized 59

B) Corp. allowed 3 Community Leaders by user group, I have more than 100

C) Microsoft was expecting 3 topics in each event and no personalization. We had 1 topic by event and topic personalization in all cases.

After lots and lots of meetings with Microsoft and Culminis we was allowed to do our events. We never received any information from Corp. if it would be allowed or not to have more than 3 Community Leaders by group. So, I recommended to all the speakers to register as they was just from one grou. This would not appear public in the event, but if Corp. complained about the number of speakers, just one group would suffer.

The mail lists helped a lot, all the speakers was in constant contact and exchanging questions.

(only after the event I discovered that the best speaker assistant would be students from the university where the event would happend)

At this point, all MS team was working hard for the event. They had the idea to make a map using virtual earth, they created the first version of the map. But I had the actual information about the events and the specific details of each one, so I created a new version, all pointing to ms Events web site : http://www.bufaloinfo.com.br/eventos/hcl/mapa.htm

Each event assistant personalized the details of the event, that was nice.

The map demonstrate to the public the real size of the event we was done in just one day and this was good.

During the preparation for the event we shared presentations with large details about how to present each topic, presentations techniques, organization techniques for the event, a lot of information sharing.

All this was done basically in one month, publicity of the event in 1 week and a half. So, the incredible result : It worked. It worked very well. I organized 59 events with speakers, university coordinator and assistants that had no experience with Microsoft events before and after that many of them created their own user groups. Everyone worked a lot in each place to make things happend.

Other user groups also joined this adventure and joined us in mail lists, so we had a total of 104 presencial events in one day.

One MVP prepared a structure to transmit his event to a lot of specific points in the country, this elevated the number of events to 224.

Of course, not all the events worked. From my 59 events organized, only 54 worked. From these 54, some of the speakers never returned the presence list.

Instead of these fails, the final result was very, very good. We did events in cities where we never did anything before. A lot of new speakers was motivated to create their own user groups, I loose the count of new user groups that was created.

Ineta and Culminis worked a lot in the event organization, but Culminis sponsored a lot of groups in these events. I don't know how many groups was sponsored, but the culminis money helped with some of the 59 events where the speaker needed to travel to the event location.

Even with the fails, I beleave in this kind of event. This event helped us to go where we never went before. This event created new speakers and new groups. So, if I have the opportunity to do it again, I would do, no doubt. Now we know there is a fail margin for events like these and we need to work and acept this fail margin to get the bigger result.

Now, I'm banned from Microsoft event support. My events now have no Microsoft support, because some of the presence lists of the 54 well suceded events was not returned to Microsoft.

Microsoft hasn't the agility to adapt its rules for new offers and new way of work created by the community. Because this way Microsoft uses to respond to community work I don't believe the core services can work in the hand of Microsoft.

Although we have the garantee that the support will not be reduced, it already was reduced. I just did two event support requests to Culminis for an event in July 12 and they are in hold, because the changes in Culminis.

A team that is winning shouldn't be changed, the changes consequencies already started.

Dennes

Hi !

A new version of the history, with much more details :

=====================================

Hi, Bart!

Answering you : The history of March 15

Everything started with a Microsoft proposal - repeat the same event we did in 2005 when VS 2005 was launched (yes, surprise : It wasn't the first time, we did that before).

I was in 2005 launch, I organized a lot of launch sites, so I have the experience with this kind of event.

Microsoft proposal was to create a one day event talking about all three technologies : Windows Server 2008, Visual Studio 2008 and SQL Server 2008. The three technologies in one day.

To make the union of the events, Microsoft would, like 2005, do an online webcast at the beggining of the event.

My experience said immediataly to me : That's bad. They are understimating the opportunity. Three technologies in a day make the topics too superficial, not what the public expects from the user groups. Even worse than that, because Microsoft set the event to go just until 13PM, with the three technologies.

I talked with the speakers that works with me and they agree that would be very better if the event was an entire day event with just one technology. Not only we will have a deeper technical event but also we will do more events, with one speaker in each place.

So, with the experience I already have, I created two discussion lists, one for the speakers and one for the speakers assistants. Yes, That's it : Each speaker needs an assistant. Because while the speaker will use his entire time to study for the speach, the assistant will use his time to prepare all the infrastructure for the event. So, two main persons involved in the event.

First mistake : I understimate the event. I created the list with its name tied with my state - Rio - and the work expanded to all the country. That was a mistake.

Here in Brazil we always work with university, there isn't any reason to do different. Universities offers their space for free and the events can be open to everyone, so we integrate the academic community with the professional community and the entire result is good. We aren't limited on the subjects we talk about just because we are in a university.

So, for the surprise of everyone, new speakers started to offer themselves to speak. User group members offered themselves to speak. So, sundely, we was with more speakes than places for them.

To solve this, I started to send e-mails to coordinators of academic courses (I don't know if this name is the name in English) offering the realization of the event. The result was great, they loved it !

It was time to face new problems - nothing in the event organization was prepared for what we was doig :

A) Microsoft expected one event by user group, I organized 59

B) Corp. allowed 3 Community Leaders by user group, I have more than 100

C) Microsoft was expecting 3 topics in each event and no personalization. We had 1 topic by event and topic personalization in all cases.

After lots and lots of meetings with Microsoft and Culminis we was allowed to do our events. We never received any information from Corp. if it would be allowed or not to have more than 3 Community Leaders by group. So, I recommended to all the speakers to register as they was just from one grou. This would not appear public in the event, but if Corp. complained about the number of speakers, just one group would suffer.

The mail lists helped a lot, all the speakers was in constant contact and exchanging questions.

(only after the event I discovered that the best speaker assistant would be students from the university where the event would happend)

At this point, all MS team was working hard for the event. They had the idea to make a map using virtual earth, they created the first version of the map. But I had the actual information about the events and the specific details of each one, so I created a new version, all pointing to ms Events web site : http://www.bufaloinfo.com.br/eventos/hcl/mapa.htm

Each event assistant personalized the details of the event, that was nice.

The map demonstrate to the public the real size of the event we was done in just one day and this was good.

During the preparation for the event we shared presentations with large details about how to present each topic, presentations techniques, organization techniques for the event, a lot of information sharing.

I created video presentations and topic guides to help the speakers. Not so many how I would like to create, but they helped.

All this was done basically in one month, publicity of the event in 1 week and a half. So, the incredible result : It worked. It worked very well. I organized 59 events with speakers, university coordinator and assistants that had no experience with Microsoft events before and after that many of them created their own user groups. Everyone worked a lot in each place to make things happend.

Other user groups also joined this adventure and joined us in mail lists, so we had a total of 104 presencial events in one day.

One MVP prepared a structure to transmit his event to a lot of specific points in the country, this elevated the number of events to 224.

During the organization, for each region in the country one person started to control the events of that region. It wasn't a formal thing, just ones thing that happend naturaly. If I would like an information from one region, I knew exactly to whom ask about it.

During the event, a lot of heroes history was created :

- One speaker from Brasilia was giving a class in Curitiba/PR and travelled by car from Curitiba/PR to Canoinhas/PR, taking with him the speaker of Porto União/PR, one city after Canoinhas (they agreed to change driving in the middle of the way). This was the most strange trip in the event and, for everyone surprise, worked perfect, as a clock.

- Two speakers from Campo Grande/MS travelled to Andradina/SP. That's a big travel.

- One speaker from Fortaleza/CE travelled to Natal/RN. It was the first time this speaker was going out his state.

- Two speakers talked at Araxa/MG, One travelled from Belo Horizonte/MG, the other from Uberlandia/MG

- One speaker travelled from Belo Horizonte/MG to Ituiutaba/MG

- One speaker travelled from Uberlandia/MG to Ipatinga/MG

- The event was saturday morning. I discovered at Saturday 2AM that I need to change my location to speak and will need to travel 2 hours to Três Rios/RJ

- Because unpredictable things, some speakers weaked up at saturday morning without nowing where they will speak and about what. My mother (yes, she helped a lot) indicated each one for the correct place.

- One of the events was in Tefé/AM, inside the Amazonia

- One speaker travelled from SP to Cia Norte/PR

- The biggest travel was from Niteroi/RJ to Franca/SP, 12 hours travelling by bus and the speaker gave a big show in his event.

(notice that a lot of the travels was across country states)

Of course, not all the events worked. From my 59 events organized, only 54 worked. From these 54, some of the speakers never returned the presence list.

Instead of these fails, the final result was very, very good. We did events in cities where we never did anything before. A lot of new speakers was motivated to create their own user groups, I loose the count of new user groups that was created.

Ineta and Culminis worked a lot in the event organization, but Culminis sponsored a lot of groups in these events. I don't know how many groups was sponsored, but the culminis money helped with some of the 59 events where the speaker needed to travel to the event location.

Even with the fails, I beleave in this kind of event. This event helped us to go where we never went before. This event created new speakers and new groups. So, if I have the opportunity to do it again, I would do, no doubt. Now we know there is a fail margin for events like these and we need to work and acept this fail margin to get the bigger result.

Now, I'm banned from Microsoft event support. My events now have no Microsoft support, because some of the presence lists of the 54 well suceded events was not returned to Microsoft.

Microsoft hasn't the agility to adapt its rules for new offers and new way of work created by the community. Because this way Microsoft uses to respond to community work I don't believe the core services can work in the hand of Microsoft.

Although we have the garantee that the support will not be reduced, it already was reduced. I just did two event support requests to Culminis for an event in July 12 and they are in hold, because the changes in Culminis.

A team that is winning shouldn't be changed, the changes consequencies already started.

Dennes

Acredito que, se acontecer realmente essa mudança, acontecerá à mesma coisa que aconteceu com o INETA. O INETA, no Brasil, é uma instituição falida. Não tem representação ativa dentro das comunidades. Acredito que, para que ela realmente funcione, ela deveria seguir o modelo do Culminis.

O Culminis tem uma grande importância dentro do cenário nacional. Inclusive, mesmo sendo uma instituição que tem o foco comunidades de Infra, ela tem apoiado ações relacionadas a desenvolvimento.

O modelo de comunidade em si para representação de uma organização não se faz interessante. Isso porque, mesmo que as atividades sejam realizadas de forma voluntária dentro deste contexto, só existe uma gerencia nos processos porque existem pessoas responsáveis e que estão sendo pagas para se dedicar a isso. E isso é mais que justo, pois se caracteriza como uma atividade/trabalho real, mantendo todo um compromisso com o sucesso da organização.

O Culminis tem um modelo de gerencia exemplar dentro do contexto de comunidade. Dispõe de profissionais competentes que fazem parte do seu quadro gerencial. Quebrar com essas atividades é ir contra tudo que vem demonstrando avanço. Se hoje somos sucesso dentro do contexto comunitário no Brasil, devemos ao trabalho sério de profissionais que se dedicam às ações do Culminis.

Ao invés de mudar o modelo organizacional do Culminis, ele deveria ser ampliado. Mais profissionais deveriam ser inseridos no quadro gerencial. Com isso, todos os processos atuais e, mais ainda, os novos processos teriam muito mais força dentro da comunidade.

Somewhere up the list of question it was asked, loosely:

If Culminis only had Microsoft money, and Microsoft already pays people to deal with the community, how is it different for Culminis to be paying people to interact with the community, and how is this independent?

For that, I would answer this way:

Culminis was set up as a private corporation, rather than an arm of Microsoft, operated by an experienced user group leader with the goal of supporting user groups, and giving them what they needed to make the user group successful, as well as to spread the Culminis vision of user groups as a vehicle for IT Pros to help their community. Not just the IT community, but to make a difference in the world around them. Micorosft was a *sponsor* of the group, but did not own it. And while they obviously had a lot of Microsoft influence, their focus was on supporting IT Pros, not selling Microsoft products.

A Microsoft community rep is there to "evangelize" IT Pros for Microsoft products. Many of them do love the IT community and work hard to help out because they're IT Pros like us. But they're hired to get Microsoft's message out to IT Pros. Yes, Culminis lobbied MS for funds, but their primary focus was the community, not Microsoft. That's what made them independent. Yes, they had to show Microsoft some benefit for the cash received. But they were free to focus on serving the IT community rather than on serving Microsoft.

For me, that's one of the biggest losses I am concerned over, is that original Culminis vision will be changed to just another Microsoft marketing mouthpiece.

One thing I really wonder, also, is how much of the current Culminis organization is likely to stay in place once they're not paid to be there. I love the IT community, but being a leader in just ONE user group is a strain for me since I also have to work for a living. I can't imagine trying to provide the level of support that Culminis tries to provide while also working a full time job. That seems to be one of the big concerns of the Brazilians, that an all-volunteer Culminis just won't be able to devote the time to supporting their far-flung communities that they were able to as employees.

An interesting question: How many people does Culminis currently employ to support the community, and how many people does Microsoft currently employ with community support as their sole job?

A intenção me parece boa, mas até que ponto as decisões serão multi-culturais? Haverá critério diferenciado sobre as diferente comunidades no mundo? Sim, porque um grupo de usuários no Brasil pensa e executa de forma diferente de um grupo da Ásia, por exemplo. Temo que as coisas fiquem cada vez mais difíceis se tirar o controle da Culminis de apoiar os grupos no Brasil.

Cito o caso do meu grupo (WITS Brasil), onde somente através da Culminis ele cresceu em força na localidade onde atua e em mais de 1000% o número de membros em apenas 2 anos. Parte disto foi o apoio financeiro direto (via solicitação ou sorteio) que viabilizou realizar com mais qualidade os eventos, pagar provas de certificação aos membros mais ativos e influenciar a comunidade técnica e acadêmica da região, dentre várias outras atividades.

Temo que esta transformação da Culminis esfrie os animos dos líderes e membros de grupos no Brasil, acarretando baixa produtividade ou até mesmo "falência" dos grupos (ou da idéia de se criar um com base em nossos testemunhos) e/ou descompromisso com campanhas para realização de eventos, por exemplo.

Pior se a Culminis se tranformar numa Ineta, que, como bem diz um líder de grupo amigo meu, está mais para "Inerte" frente a capacidade de promover e desenvolver os grupos de usuários... mas isto não vem ao caso agora (será este o revolucionário modelo que a querem para a Culminis?).

Torço para esta discussão tenha efeito prático e não apenas "Ibope". Mas se de fato esta transformação for inevitável, infelizmente temos que esperar para ver o que acontece. Só não quero pagar para ver -- e muito menos se cobrado pelo fracasso da não tentativa de reverter esta situação.

Torço para o melhor e que Deus nos ajude!

Weliton Junior

WITS Brasil User Group Lead

Today, June 20, Graham Watson, a senior marketing manager at Microsoft focused on technical communities

First of all, thank you for sharing such information with user groups.

I see Microsoft is offering extra support for user groups and communities by this step and I hope we can do more in return with Microsoft.

I think that Microsoft will put all user group supports and efforts into one way!

Again, Thanks for sharing this information.

Mohamed N. El-Guindy, PhD, MBCS, CITP

ASK-PC, Community leader

My experience with this system in INETA EMEA region is not satisfying. As I am not listed in EMEA region in Culminis program rather than listed in APAC region, the Culminis APAC LEAD is very supportive in helping my group events. I never receive any kind of funds from INETA but receive from Culminis with ease.

Regards,

Zubair Mehmood

MicroTec User Group

Always good to move on next level, first of all my heads up to Culminis team, the amount time they spent on the community activity to reach out the world wide.

Good that Mr.Graham and his team come forward to take the global initiative on the community activity I appreciate their community enthusiasm.  

I like to point out some of my views points here:  when the new volunteer organization directly goes to support to User group community worldwide its good news for us, at the same time we need to find out the system that user groups are not bounded to any single technology vendor or products.

The board has to come up with idea / policy: Community should always managed by community leaders / volunteers not directly by any of the principle or corporate.

Because of taking help / support from Microsoft, public should not think that user groups are controller by Microsoft or anyone else.

The new setup (volunteer) organization should find a way to keep alive of existing Culminis level 5 programs.

We BITPro is getting good support and service from Culminis past 3 years. The same time we understand that some of benefits offered in the US region to community is huge, the same benefits not avail in APAC. I think now the new board can offer equal benefits to every user group irrespective of the region.

S.Kaliyan

Co-founder and Manager BangaloreITPro User Group

Microsoft MVP - Windows Server

Member of Culminis

http://www.securitynprivacy.com

http://groups.msn.com/bangaloreitpro

http://spaces.msn.com/members/kaliyans

This org has grown sideways for far too long, and its been rumored that Microsoft was going to step in

I've been involved with User Groups for about 30 years (yup, I'm old).  Like most business plans, it's all about the execution.  I was very involved with Microsoft during the heydays of the 90's through APCUG (Association of Personal Computer User Groups), and when Microsoft dedicated resources to the program, it was great.  There was a time when the personnel turnover at MindShare (MS's program at the time) made it very difficult for UG's to really develop a strong relationship.

At the TechEd 07 and 08 (ITPro) in Orlando I lead or co-lead Birds of a Feather sessions about User Groups.

That said, this could work.  I would suggest (just for giggles) that consideration be given to including APCUG in this program.  INETA giving the developer community a voice, Culminis the IT Pro and APCUG the end user.

The Greater Cleveland PC Users Group, where I was Prez for several years and am now a Board Member and Sig Leader, has Sigs about .Net development, SQL, Windows, and SBS to name a few.  We also have a solid percentage of members interested in Digital Photography and general computer knowledge.

The bottom line is I hope that this consolidation within Microsoft is going to a> have the resources and continuity necessary to succeed, and b> encourage and allow the diversity among User Groups to embrace all technologies and approaches (group hug, now<g>).

RL (Bob) Coppedge, MCSE, MCDBA, MCTS, MCITP, MCT

Dang!  I was SO going to comment on Graham's blog here back on the 23rd of June....

I'm sure everyone knows how we can be overcome by events and wind up forgetting to do something, even something important.

So, now I'll say it....

I have enjoyed over this past year tremendous support from Culminis, especially Paul Gross, Peggy Gould, Stephanie Perkins and Dave Sanders.  Before this, when Culminis didn't yet exisit, I started a group back in the 1990's, and without support it was very, very difficult to keep things going.  Eventually we stopped meeting.  I reformed the group in late 2006 after meeting Peggy at TechEd 2006 in Boston and being encouraged with her very strong offer of support form Culminis.  

Now my only concern is that theses folks get a paycheck from Microsoft to continue their good support of our groups here in NA.  That is my wish.

If my wish cannot be supported, then I can only hope that Microsoft will at least keep the same or higher level of support that Culminis had for my group.

Incidently, I am aware that some folks have said that they didn't receive support from Culimnis; I can only speak for my own group, and we have been treated very well.

Dave Franklyn, President

Montgomery (Ala) Windows IT Professional Group

Good move... however, I would like to understand few things on when called as all being volunteer based effort, what are the other proceeding thoughts for encouraging members from volunteering. Also with Culminis being supporting as a Non-profit now getting into volunteering, how would that really effect? Microsoft has always been supporting in the past and always will be. Since being a user group leader, we know how much pain it takes in finding volunteers for the user group. Volunteering comes from an individual's initiative and the one who would take up the task or implementing an idea by self. Volunteering turns out a DIEING effort that lasts for just few months unless there is some motivation for them, and with Microsoft being the major brand... expectations go higher.

With Culminis turning into Volunteering, what would be the major shift is the only concern and to what extent does one think will continue volunteering?

Culminis also has a private leader discussion forum. To what extent have any "leaders volunteered" in participating there? There has been no communications happening, even though we see that Culminis informing every leads to make use of the portals and collaborate.

I’ve been talking to my team this wee, reviewing their work for last year. planning for next year and

Olá a todos!

Sou um dos Líderes do Grupo de Usuários Build Brasil (antigo Build Developer´s). Nós iniciamos nossas atividades em outubro de 2004 e desde então, como todos os grupos brasileiros passamos por muitas fases diferentes. No inicio tínhamos um apoio muito forte da Microsoft, mas com o tempo esse apoio foi diminuindo até chegar ao nível atual. Os grupos de usuários para realizar um evento tem que cada vez mais criar alternativas para suportar as fases da realização dos mesmos. A autonomia dos grupos para realizar eventos traz beneficios a todos nós dos grupos, principalmente em relação ao networking que acaba sendo feito. Mas o ponto que quero chegar é que a INETA, veio para ajudar e ajudou muito os grupos de usuários de desenvolvimento,mas acabou se tornando uma organização inerte devido a uma série de fatores, do incio desse ano pra cá a INETA começou a melhorar, principalmente depois da regionalização de seus coordenadores e  da parceria com a Culminis.

Ai é que está, a INETA voltou a melhorar ao firmar parceria com a Culminis e adotar algumas práticas comuns.  Eu pergunto:

Se a INETA tornou-se um pouco mais eficiente ao realizar atividades em comum com a CULMINIS, por que a CULMINIS vai se tornar uma organização moldada como a INETA?

Será que o tempo não vai fazer com que ambas organizações se tornem inertes?

Sem um apoio efetivo, como o oferecido até agora pela CULMINIS, a tendência é que os grupos de usuários cada vez mais sejam abondonados e extintos. Mesmo porque a Microsoft através do TechNet e MSDN não tem oferecido tanto apoio assim aos grupos. Por mais o pessoal do TechNet e MSDN Brasil lutem a determinações da Microsoft Corp prejudicam e muito o apoio que já tivemos. A INETA também não pode oferecer tanto apoio assim e agora a Culminis me parece seguir pelo mesmo caminho.

Espero estar errado, mas infelizmente pelo que já vi, acredito que isso não traga beneficios aos grupos brasileiros.

Muito pelo contrário, só trará mais dificuldades para todos nós, mas como "somos brasileiros e não desistimos nunca", pois que venham as mudanças!

[]´s

Israel Lucania

Líder Build Brasil

We are expecting a whole lot of wonderful things from our People Ready organization, Microsoft.

Hi,

Like I said in your blog that will happend, I loose my MVP title because my opinions about Culminis changes, that I wrote here.

Microsoft, specially Microsoft Brasil, prefer to hide the problems than to try to solve them. So one MVP that make critics to Microsoft isn't a good MVP.

So, all the marketing in MVP Summit talking about how Microsoft needs the community and the MVPs to show how to do things better is just that : Marketing

Congratulations for your great contributions to the community!

Dennes Torres

ex-MVP

Un post molto interessante relativo ad alcuni cambiamenti sul modello di supporto agli User Group worldwide:

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two years later, confirmation. Dennes Torres was right.

Culminis is over!

I disagree - Culminis has changed substantially, but it's anything but over!  It has a new name (Global IT Community Association - GITCA), and is run entirely by the community rather than a business, but it's anything but over. If fact I believe it's in much better shape, in that it truly is a community now.

Yes Culminis Inc is dead. It died on October 1st, 2008 and the volunteer version of Culminis became GITCA on December 1st, 2009, essentially as a new organization. If there was any expectation that a well funded company [Culminis Inc] with multiple paid staff could "instantly" be replaced with a volunteer organization on a world wide basis that was totally unrealistic, regardless of geographic location. It was never going to be "system normal" for quite some time. The systems and services that Culminis Inc provided were developed over a 5 year period with the investment of a substantial amount of money and people.

At the outset it was clear to us that Culminis Inc had enjoyed considerable success in Brasil and one must give them credit for that. So it is quite understandable that there would be disappointment when it was shut down. However, the experience had been quite different in many other places around the world and the switch to a volunteer organization has by and large been met with a positive response. We are beginning to get engagement in places that never worked with Culminis Inc..

Getting to where we are now has been quite difficult and demanding and has taken much longer than anyone expected or desired, resulting in an understandable "where did they go?" feeling for many. That is definitely one of the challenges of a volunteer org. We would readily acknowledge that there is still a long way to go to meet the needs and desires of the IT community which we recognize does vary geographically. That recognition resulted in the formation of Regional Boards including one for LATAM.

The reasoning behind a switch to an all volunteer org and Microsoft's view of the overall effectiveness of Culminis Inc for dollars invested on a world wide basis is complex. Suffice it to say that Brasil could not be seen as completely separate despite the apparent success there and funding that came from Culminis Inc for some of the past activities was definitely not going to continue at previous levels anyway. Had Culminis Inc continued it would have been with substantially reduced funding and therefore people, rendering it much less effective. Volunteers from the IT community was an obvious way of finding resources. Money helps but does not guarantee success any more than lack of it guarantees failure.

If the community wants to improve and grow then it must help itself. INETA may not have worked in Brasil but it has been very successful in North America and Europe. It is easy to complain when something is taken away. It is much more challenging to figure out how to replace it. As individuals we can either decide to stand on the sidelines and complain or get involved and help. The volunteers who now run GITCA decided that the latter is the right thing to do. What about the people in Brasil? If volunteering doesn't work there, as has been suggested in some of the previous posts, then I think that is very sad.

Incidentally the Chair of the LATAM Regional Board [Jamil Lopes - jamil.lopes@GITCA.org] happens to be Brasilian! Perhaps poeple should contact him to find out what is happening, offer ideas or, better still, volunteer to help. People could also contact Felipe Zunige [felipe.zunige@GITCA.org]in Chile. Felipe is the LATAM Vice-Chair. Both Jamil and Felipe are keen to get things moving in LATAM and to hear from people.

So we are definitely not "over" as has been suggested. Our world wide membership has grown steadily over the past few months and continues to grow.

Regards

Graham Jones

Chair GITCA Global Board

graham.jones@GITCA.org